What's with the Vampire obsession nowadays?

[Kirb]

I have heard it used in racially derogatory context, too, but not all the time . . . in fact, not even most of the times I've heard it used. And I've lived pretty much my whole life in areas known for horrific race relations.

Even Dictionary.com and Urban Dictionary seem to have fewer racially derogatory definitions for the word than otherwise.

But so does 'Faggot.'

1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel
2. (Engineering / Metallurgy) a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron
3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried
4. a bundle of anything

Definition or not, in modern usage, it's considered pretty derogatory, whether it's intentional or not.

[Jim North]

Definition or not, in modern usage, it's considered pretty derogatory, whether it's intentional or not.

All I can say is, not from my own experience. At least, not any worse than saying just plain "nasty" or "icky". Y'all may have worse racists around your parts who would use that word in a more derogatory fashion more often, I don't know, though I would find it difficult to believe since I come from Mississippi and then later for many years lived just a couple hour's drive from the KKK's leader's hometown.

[Toxic]

I recall Don Imus got fired from his radio show a couple years back for referring to a female basketball team as "nappy headed hos".

As for "faggot" I remember I was in sunday school when I was a kid and we were studying a passage that read something like "they threw faggots into the fire to keep it going" and I asked one of my classmates what a faggot was, and she said a gay man, so I was under the impression for years that it was common to use gay men as firewood due to their excessive use of flammable hair products.

[RPin]

Maybe I should start policing myself around here. I tend to type the fag word unconciously these days, due to 4chan's influence...

[MixedMyth]

The strict definition of the word does indeed mean a bundle of sticks. However, it is used as an extremely insulting term for someone who is gay and it does not help to say 'oh it's just means a bundle of sticks' when the usage is clearly referring to the less innocent connotation. If someone called you a faggot, you're not going to think "Oh! They're just calling me a bundle of sticks!" Or, if you do, it's only to point out the idiocy of your assailant. You'd still be aware of what they really meant by it. To be fair, the word has common usage in places outside the US for a number of different and legitimate definitions...but when referring to homosexuality, it is still very much an offensive word.

I used to hear it in school as a way to shame kids into acting more manly, or to bully them into eyes-downcast silence. Nevermind when it is actually said to someone who IS gay.

Anyhow, sorry for derailing...I seem to have started a ball going, and it just keeps rolling.

Edit: Just a thought. The word might have more weight up here than in Mississippi not because there are more bigots, but because people tend to be more concious of the issue. That is, the gay community is more outspoken than in Mississippi and, generally, has gotten the point across that they really don't like it. I mean, you used to hear the N word a lot back in the day, too, and it wasn't always considered a huge insult by white america. I mean, the alternate name for Brazil nuts was pretty horrible. But it WAS very offensive to blacks, and since the civil rights movement it has been come to be accepted by most of white America that it is really, really, really not okay to say.

[Mercury Hat]

Sure, as a white male the term "nappy headed" might not be all that offensive to you at all. But there is so much negative history behind it that to use it so freely means at best you're unaware of its origins: a derogatory insult by whites towards blacks based on white standards of beauty that the only good hair is flat and straight. A phrase that is still so racially charged that as recently as 2007 Don Imus was fired for calling black female athletes "nappy-headed hos".

So, there are people taking a derogatory term about a black person's natural hair and making it synonymous with "nasty" or "icky". But where I live must be where there are super racists more powerful than the KKK because I'm the one finding that to be in horrible taste.

[Spaceprincess]

It seems the worst crime you can commit these days is to hurt someones feelings. It's as if people are looking for thing to be offended by. Nobody seems to remember the nursery rhyme about sticks and stone... What I find really funny about Political correctness is the hypocrisy and double standards. One group will claim how horribly offended they were then turn around and blatantly hate on others. It's so damn silly. Political correctness always reminds me of NewsSpeak. It's an attempt to control thought through language. If the "bad" words don't exist then neither can the "bad" thoughts. I'm not condoning hate speech, but peoples right to freely express their opinions is far more important than someones hurt feelings.

wasn't this thread about how people don't like a group of fans because they enjoy a book series?

[MixedMyth]

I was so waiting for someone to post that. Surprised it didn't happen sooner. Look, there is definately such a thing as going overboard being PC. And it gets reeeal annoying. But not ALL instances of objecting to offensive words are cases of the PC Police come down on some innocent little statement. Words have cultural and contextual meaning. And words ALWAYS attempt to impose one's thoughts through meaning. That's what they do every time someone gives an opinion. It isn't the thought police from 1984 cracking down on what you're thinking every time someone is offended by a word and objects. I'm not saying that people CAN'T use these words, I'm saying that in most cases they SHOULDN'T and maybe they should think a little more about what their words might mean to people. And while its true that some of the most horrible things a person can say to someone have nothing at all to do with what curse words they use, nevertheless there are words that one really shouldn't use with thoughtless abandon. Racial slurs, slurs based on sexual orientation, and some others have a lot of bite to them and should be handled with care and if people use them they really shouldn't be surprised that people get offended.

[Mercury Hat]

Right of course, using slurs and pejoratives that have an obvious weight and history attached to them associated with systemic and institutionalized discrimination and abuse is exactly the same as calling someone a booger brain. They should just get over it, pfft what a bunch of babies.

OBVIOUSLY wanting people to not use these words isn't part of being a decent human being, it's just being a politically correct tightwad. Words that mean you are inherently different, you are inherently trash, you are inherently inferior, you will never be anything else, and you deserve to be hated because of who you are.

How silly of us.

[BrownEyedCat]

I'm not condoning hate speech, but peoples right to freely express their opinions is far more important than someones hurt feelings.

Right, so, if someone calls me a cunt, I have no right to let them know I'm offended, even if it really hurt my feelings. And if they had no idea it would hurt my feelings, I especially have no right to let them know that I don't think it's okay, because it's not as though they'd want to, you know, be respectful of my feelings at all. It's much more important that they can call me insults all the time than that I am treated with respect.

[Jim North]

But there is so much negative history behind it that to use it so freely means at best you're unaware of its origins:

Nnnnooooo . . . as I said, I am quite aware of its origins, and I have heard it used in a derogatory manner before. I've heard virtually every racial slur against blacks that exists, including a large number of them that are no longer in common usage and/or have gradually come to mean something else. "Nappy", as far as I have been aware, is one of these in the latter category.

Hell, the big baddie of 'em all, "nigger", has meant a million different things over the course of its history. It originally meant any slow or lazy person and didn't gain major use against blacks until much much later. Even though it still retains its derogatory meaning as well, it's also used among black people in a far less racially charged way.

And I've just taken the time to look into the Don Imus thing, and from the transcripts from the incident, it seems to be that "nappy headed hos" is just one of a number of rather unfortunate remarks he and McGuirk made - most of which were far worse - and it was the exchange as a whole that was the problem, not just his admittedly racially derogatory use of the word "nappy".

Really, I'm sorry you're all PC butthurt over the whole thing. I'm sure that saying that Edward has crappy looking hair - be he white, black, or sparkly - really hurts you deep inside, and I think we should keep on arguing about it because it's so terribly important to the integrity of the forums as a whole that nobody try to use a new, non-offensive definition of a word.

Oh noes! I'm being sarcastic! I must have learned it from the overbearing master of sarcasm, good ol' Mercury Hat. PS, getting sarcastic in a debate does not become an administrator, Merc. It's petty and unnecessary. It's just fine for me to do it, tho', 'cause you did it first and that just makes me childish instead.

But hey, if it helps, maybe Derek did mean it specifically in the racially offensive way and you can ban him and everyone can by happy happy. It's possible, especially given the "white boy" part. And for serious here . . . if he did mean it that way, then I agree, it's not okay.

I'm just trying to point out that it doesn't mean that to everyone. Some people call cigarettes fags . . . that doesn't mean they want to light homosexuals on fire and inhale the smoke.

Words aren't important. Intent is.

Just a thought. The word might have more weight up here than in Mississippi not because there are more bigots, but because people tend to be more concious of the issue.

Perhaps, but specifically conscious of the issue in a "hey, this is a really great slur to use, so let's use it as much as possible" way, unfortunately.

It's a thought with merit. Perhaps "nappy" has managed to slide into non-offensive territory in Mississippi purely because there are so many more worse things that both sides have called each other over the decades. It's social progress by way of saturation!

wasn't this thread about how people don't like a group of fans because they enjoy a book series?

And it's most likely time it got back to that. Hating on people for their race or sexual orientation is wrong because they were born into those things. Hating on people for liking a book series is okay because they chose that course of their own free will!

So good day, ladies and gentlemen, and have fun with that.

[Kirb]

Words aren't important. Intent is.

Yes and no. I don't anyone is actually trying to call anyone racist here.

But in real society, it's foolish just to walk around saying words widely known as derogatory, then putting a pinky up to your mouth and slyly declaring that you weren't using it in the normally derogatory way. Words have meaning in a culture and society, positive and negative, and nobody will care what you think about how offensive or not offensive a term is, only that you use it.

I'm not very politically correct, myself, but this much should be obvious.

Maybe I should start policing myself around here. I tend to type the fag word unconciously these days, due to 4chan's influence...

Don't be such a moralfag, rpin.

[Phalanx]

Note to self: when creating comic about undead character, use a Pontianak, Tikabalang or a Penanggalan instead.

[Komiyan]

It seems the worst crime you can commit these days is to hurt someones feelings. It's as if people are looking for thing to be offended by. Nobody seems to remember the nursery rhyme about sticks and stone... What I find really funny about Political correctness is the hypocrisy and double standards. One group will claim how horribly offended they were then turn around and blatantly hate on others. It's so damn silly. Political correctness always reminds me of NewsSpeak. It's an attempt to control thought through language. If the "bad" words don't exist then neither can the "bad" thoughts. I'm not condoning hate speech, but peoples right to freely express their opinions is far more important than someones hurt feelings.

wasn't this thread about how people don't like a group of fans because they enjoy a book series?

My free opinion is that people who hate political correctness are nearly always white males who are upset that they can't use particular words any more, and they might actually have to notice that other people have feelings and experience some words in different ways than they do. My free opinion is also that they can shove it.

Just my free opinion, of course.

[Warren]

My free opinion is that people who hate political correctness are nearly always white males who are upset that they can't use particular words any more, and they might actually have to notice that other people have feelings and experience some words in different ways than they do. My free opinion is also that they can shove it.

Just my free opinion, of course.

So we just call them uneducated teabaggers and move on. Nothing offensive about that, right? Cause they probably like tea!

[Dr Legostar]

apparently those kind of words are also what it takes to incite actual activity in the Comic Genesis Forums again.

I'm still not sure how "nappy" in this context is such a horrible thing. I understand and respect that fact that it is a word that is not appropriate to use in regular conversation and that it has a bad connotation to an entire ethnic category, however the person being referred to as "nappy-headed" in this context was not one of that group, he's a white British kid, white enough that someone thought he'd make a good vampire. Obviously "nappy-headed" when referring to him implies the other connotation, just as saying "fag" when talking about cigarettes or a bundle of sticks is obviously not a derogatory term to homosexuals when you are obviously talking about cigarettes or a bundle of sticks. I'm all for not using horrible words, and certainly Derek's use of faggotry earlier in this thread was a big mistake and deserved the angry response, but in this case I don't see why "nappy-headed" is anything other than a reference to Mr. Pattison's rather ugly hair. Unless there are serious mental or visual problems on Derek's part, I doubt he's saying "Robert Pattison is black and has a black person's hair that makes him inferior and horrible." So I really just don't understand why that needs to be taken out of context and this uproar needs to be here, unless certain parties have already been made sensitive to Derek's comments, in which case, I suggest to Derek very very carefully edit your posts for a good long while.

[Spaceprincess]

I'm not condoning hate speech, but peoples right to freely express their opinions is far more important than someones hurt feelings.

Right, so, if someone calls me a cunt, I have no right to let them know I'm offended, even if it really hurt my feelings. And if they had no idea it would hurt my feelings, I especially have no right to let them know that I don't think it's okay, because it's not as though they'd want to, you know, be respectful of my feelings at all. It's much more important that they can call me insults all the time than that I am treated with respect.

Every human being, whom ever or what ever they may be, deserves to be treated with compassion, love and respect. but it doesn't always work out that way. You certainly have the right to say what you feel and to tell the person what you think. but you can't legislated niceness. People are going to say and do what they will regardless of laws or social norms. you can't control that, there is always gonna be assholes in this world. But you can control how you respond. You can also choose too put aside pride, be a mature person and be forgiving. words meant to hurt only have power if you let them. I've said some horrible things to people and I hope they forgive me, I try hard to forgive them. Now if what your describing is some one right in your face that's abuse and shouldn't be tolerated.

Just my free opinion, of course.

I'd like to learn more about freedom from an imperial British subject, that is if her majesty allows you to.

[Komiyan]

Yeah, the Queen affects my life so much! She is stood over my shoulder right now, reading your post! She's so angry the crown is slipping over her eyes and the corgis are foaming at the mouth! I'm scared, you guys!

It's cool anyway, is your next argument about how we have CCTV? Maybe bring up the constitution and how awesome it is?

[Robin Pierce]

Yeah, the Queen affects my life so much! She is stood over my shoulder right now, reading your post! She's so angry the crown is slipping over her eyes and the corgis are foaming at the mouth! I'm scared, you guys!

Every year she forces me to give her flowers, and I spent my life behind a sewing machine sewing her floral print dresses so she is happy woe is me.

[Komiyan]

I hope you're made her dress for the Christmas Speech already, or it's the corgis for you!