The freakish size of Nancy Reagan's head.

[Yeahduff]

This is a thread for mature, thoughtful political discourse centering around the presidential race in the United States.

The tickets have been finalized: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin.

Two months to go. What's it going to be then, eh?

[Killbert-Robby]

I don't know. Honestly, for me this is another case of "voting for a giant douche or turd sandwich". As usual, I'd end up wanting some third party nobody to win just because he's the only one who fits my political ideals. It's the same old voting for black or white. You're left, or you're right.

But like I said, I couldn't call it, I'm pretty sure its going to be another near 50-50.

[Rkolter]

I've always called myself a Republicrat. I have never been wholly satisfied with anyone I voted for because both the reigning parties have about 50% of the things I like, 40% of the things I don't like, and 10% of the things I really detest.

[Dracomax]

I like mccain better than obama for a number of reasons. i will, however, most likely vote for obama.

[Killbert-Robby]

I like mccain better than obama for a number of reasons. i will, however, most likely vote for obama.

But doesn't voting for someone else when you prefer one person sort of defeat the purpose of democracy?

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

No.

[Dracomax]

it's a matter of long term success for the country.

i think both choices of candidate are going to be bad for the country. even though i agree with more of mccain's policies than obama's, the problem is, I tend to think that the democratic congress will vote down anything mccain wants to do that has a faint chance of improving things, and then point to the failure of his polidcies. it will perpetuate a slow, draining decline to the country and the public's beleif in their governemnt.

on the other hand, I think obama will tend to increase spending without making cuts where they are most needed. I think his policies will be nmore or less pushed through by the congress to deletarious effect. It will be very bad for the country in the short term, but a sudden decline will use far less of the countries recources than a slow one, giving us a better chance to pull out of the decline I forsee to the country, hopefully with the option of better choices in the next presidential election.

so, even though I think obama will be bad for the country in the short run, I think he might actually save teh country in the long run. hopefully by breaking the 2 party system.

[Killbert-Robby]

But then you clearly prefer Obama because besides your beefs against him you think he's better for the country...

Sorry, its just earlier, you made it sound like "McCain rocks, Obama sucks, but eh, I'll vote for him. 'Cos.". No misunderstanding meant.

[Yeahduff]

I find a Democratic congress and a Republican president to be the chief positive for McCain.

This assumes Democrats actually take control of congress. They have the House, and will likely strengthen control, but the Senates 50-49, not exactly free reign in there. That's why there's grid-lock now, especially with a very stubborn president.

I like Obama. I think he can get things done. I'd've preferred Biden as Secretary of State, but his foreign policy credentials are comforting.

I used to like McCain, but he's given up his identity to get elected, and it's hard to distinguish him from Bush at this point.

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

I have many doubts about Obama. He's a fine speaker with powerful charisma, dunno know how much he could get done as a president though. Essentially, I definitely like him better than McCain. And Especially more than Palin who could very well end up being president given McCain's ages and health problems.

I know people that take the piss out of Congress all the time time and how they get nothing done. But then I remind them who's at the top vetoing everything.

[Yeahduff]

What don't you guys like about Obama?

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

I like what he has to say, but don't really feel confident that he can do it. If I'm proven wrong, then good.

[Dracomax]

first, I've become convinced his judgement is lacking, for a variety of reasons.

second, he has lots of plans to spend money, but claims that most people will not be affected tax-wise. I personally think spending should be cut dramatically, in general.

third, he has viewpoints I dissagree with, which I won't go into detail on because the arguments about these things tend to be annoying

4th, his foreign policy as shown through his view on the iraq war, (specifically the surge) and georgia is extremely shortsighted and unresearched.

5th, most of the people i know of from illinois don't like him. if everyone i knew fromforum said the admin was bad, i would tend to trust their judgement in the admin capacity, and vice versa.

6th The more he talks, the more arrogant he sounds to me.

7th, and least important, there is just something about him i don't trust. i try to suppress this because I can't pinpoint a reason

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

I'm from and live in Illinois. This is Obama Country and people love him.

[Dracomax]

I'm from and live in Illinois. This is Obama Country and people love him.

what part of illinois? most of the people I know are from the south.

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

The North, just outside of Chicago so that would probably explain it. The north and south side of Chicago is like a different universe, let alone the southern part of Illinois.

[Dracomax]

granted. I still say that if a significant portion of his state isn't happy with him, then that has to say something about his record.
but... I'm willing to move that one down on the list to a lesser priority.

[Yeahduff]

first, I've become convinced his judgement is lacking, for a variety of reasons.

No better time or place.

second, he has lots of plans to spend money, but claims that most people will not be affected tax-wise. I personally think spending should be cut dramatically, in general.

Wouldn't expect this out McCain. At least Obama plans to pay for it.

third, he has viewpoints I dissagree with, which I won't go into detail on because the arguments about these things tend to be annoying

Probably enough said.

4th, his foreign policy as shown through his view on the iraq war, (specifically the surge) and georgia is extremely shortsighted and unresearched.

Prime minister of Iraq supports Obama's Iraq policy. Bush always said "When Iraq thinks we should leave."

Obama said Georgia shared in the blame. Which is true. "We are all Georgians" is kinda ridiculous.

5th, most of the people i know of from illinois don't like him. if everyone i knew fromforum said the admin was bad, i would tend to trust their judgement in the admin capacity, and vice versa.

He's very, very popular in Illinois. Mostly in Chicago, but that's where most of the people live. You won't find a politician anywhere who doesn't have detractors.

6th The more he talks, the more arrogant he sounds to me.

Matter of taste, I suppose, but did you hear Palin last night? Or Giuliani? Hear the things McCain's people are saying these days? Probably the least arrogant dude involved in this.

7th, and least important, there is just something about him i don't trust. i try to suppress this because I can't pinpoint a reason

Eh, trust is an important thing, even if it's just gut. Won't convince anyone else of anything, but don't just shrug that off.

[Killbert-Robby]

An arrogant politician? Heaven forbid.

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

granted. I still say that if a significant portion of his state isn't happy with him, then that has to say something about his record.
but... I'm willing to move that one down on the list to a lesser priority.

Just out of curiosity, how many people do you know from Illinois? Also, where do they all live relative to each other and why they don't like him? It's a bit of a bold claim to say that a significant portion of the state doesn't like him based on what you stated earlier.