Rebirth of Webcomic Above Discussion

[Americangothic]

What program are you using?

I have Corel 8 and Gimp, but I use Corel the most since I am most familiar with it. I am saving my pennies up for Photoshop, but it will be a while.

[Greypaint]

Not to disagree here, but am I the only one lost in the irony of everyone praising how The Neko doesn't sugar coat his reviews by sugar coating their review of his reviews (if that made any sence)?

[ sugarcoat] Well, if you think about it, The Neko's reviews really aren't that bad. All he does is just point out a few minor errors. It's all very embellished, but nothing to fret about. [/sugarcoat]

[Hilarioushenry]

In general, it's tough to review a peer's work. You really don't want to come across as a bastard and lose a potential friend, but at the same time you want to see the person improve and get their work out to more people. I was going somewhere with this rant, but I kind of forgot where....hmmm.

[The Neko]

The scary thing is that I'm more critical of myself than I am of others, if you can imagine.

The difference between sugarcoating and being positive is that the former is lying in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary for the sake of "being nice". It is possible to say good things about something or someone and be sincere. I just find it easier to take the guesswork out of my intentions and say what I'm thinking, provide my rationalization, and possible ideas for improvement. The difficulty is trying to add humor and a bit of sardonic flair so that the whole thing doesn't become too... overpowering, but that can be difficult when you really want to be taken seriously.

The purpose of giving a critique, or in some cases an "audit", is to point out the flaws so that the author learns to identify them for themselves and thus improve the work. Sometimes it can go so far as to provide specific pathways to pursue for betterment. And in the end, it can only help to benefit webcomics as a whole if more people produce more refined content.

If reviewing had the sole purpose of making someone feel bad to the point where they don't want to continue doing anything anymore, then there wouldn't be a point. Even though, in some cases, it'd be best for an author to clean the slate and start again, leaving their freshman or sophomoric efforts behind as an experiment, it doesn't mean that all their modes of creativity must cease.

[Americangothic]

People can still be honest without sugarcoating and/or rudeness.

I personally think Neko's reviews are unprofessional. They are pitted with emotion and come off with the venom of a snake.

It does not require meanness to tell someone how simplistic and rough their final product is and that thier art talent is unrefined.

While I applaud Neko for his multisylabic word choices, use of art terminology and lingo, I feel that he could have done better without the peppering of snide comments. It makes me wonder who his target audience was: Did he do it for the artist's benefit, or did he do it to get laughs and attention out of all of you?

Gothia

[Joel Fagin]

Then again, I would NEVER have the courage to be one of his subjects/victims. There's a huge difference between admiring his honest apporach and actually taking such a browbeating.

You mean a drowbeating.

- Joel Fagin

[Black Sparrow]

Neko's just like that, AG. It's better to take the snide remarks for what they are, because he's not going to change that.

Then again, I would NEVER have the courage to be one of his subjects/victims. There's a huge difference between admiring his honest apporach and actually taking such a browbeating.

You mean a drowbeating.

- Joel Fagin

Nah, drowbeatings are fun. The females get to hold the whips.

[Sput]

People can still be honest without sugarcoating and/or rudeness.

I personally think Neko's reviews are unprofessional. They are pitted with emotion and come off with the venom of a snake.

It does not require meanness to tell someone how simplistic and rough their final product is and that thier art talent is unrefined.

While I applaud Neko for his multisylabic word choices, use of art terminology and lingo, I feel that he could have done better without the peppering of snide comments. It makes me wonder who his target audience was: Did he do it for the artist's benefit, or did he do it to get laughs and attention out of all of you?

Gothia

There's this handy little thing called voice. His just happens to be crueler than you see fit. ;p


besides, unprofessional reviews for unprofessional work, amirite? 8D

[Komiyan]

besides, unprofessional reviews for unprofessional work, amirite? 8D

S'true, not a one of us would claim to be professional. Er, unless they're horribly embelishing.

[Hilarioushenry]

People can still be honest without sugarcoating and/or rudeness.

I personally think Neko's reviews are unprofessional. They are pitted with emotion and come off with the venom of a snake.

It does not require meanness to tell someone how simplistic and rough their final product is and that thier art talent is unrefined.

While I applaud Neko for his multisylabic word choices, use of art terminology and lingo, I feel that he could have done better without the peppering of snide comments. It makes me wonder who his target audience was: Did he do it for the artist's benefit, or did he do it to get laughs and attention out of all of you?

Gothia

I don't know. I was reading through his review and I didn't see anything wrong with it. I mean, it was definitely harsh, but he backed everything up with evidence and explained why he thought the way he thought. In terms of reviews, I think he did a pretty good job.

The downside of threads like these is that we like the concept, but when it comes to the execution, we tend to back away. I'll admit, I was really keen on critiquing a comic...but then kind of blanched when a review of my site showed up. Now that I've had a few days to look at it, I must say that I'm quite appreciative of the comments.

[Sput]

besides, unprofessional reviews for unprofessional work, amirite? 8D

S'true, not a one of us would claim to be professional. Er, unless they're horribly embelishing.

Heheh. Besides, lots of these reviews ARE unprofessionals. Sqooshy wooshy wuvey ones with an intent to be nice aren't really that professional, but no one would complain about one. XD

[Mon Ami]

Review for Knights of Vasteria is done, as for the timing, I had to be able and really get through it before I did it ^__^

And yes Neko has proven he can be a venom spitting bastard, but an honest one with proof to back it up. Personally I want to see him take a crack at Antics. It would be neat to be shreaded!

[ShineDog]

i cant help but kind of agree with AG. hes enjoying it too much.

[The Neko]

i cant help but kind of agree with AG. hes enjoying it too much.

Welllll, I do enjoy critiquing and reviewing. Otherwise, I'd be a terrible media/cultural studies student.

It's not just negative things I like reviewing. Often, to the chagrin of those around me, I expound in the same way about things that I like, deconstructing the parts to find out the basis of its appeal. (Lackadaisy, the Persona series, etc.)

[Sorcery101]

Having talked to professional comic book editors and heard some stories from a few of my professors, Neko's review is on the nice side. I got a review from the editor at IDW Publishing which ripped through some of my stuff and contained much much more venom than Neko has shown, that when summed up told my I sucked at absolutely everything when it came to art. Then ended with a snided remark suggesting that I give up art all together and just be a writer (even though he hadn't read any of my writing just looked at art). There are plenty of professionals out there who are heavy on the venom taking the philsophy that it will at thicken their skin enough to make them prepare for the next person who tells them they suck or it will make them more on to something else they are more devoted to while making room for someone else who can deal with being ripped apart.

Personally, I like the venom. It's a good test of how much you're willing to stick with it. I personally think I'm better for being told that I should quit drawing. It made my review with an assistant editor at Dark Horse much more pleasant when not everything was in the negative category.

[The Neko]

Yeah, when you work in professional places like DC Comics, you really have to shift through a lot of garbage. Eventually, you just get so tired of it that you lose the energy to be nice anymore. Although that doesn't give license to be an asshole that gives up on constructive criticism.

[Dotty]

That's why I said I'm damn sure he's intending to knock people down a few pegs by making his reviews harsher than they require to be, but that's his thing, and as I already said, I'd rather his review over a sugarcoater, any day.

Serge, I'm sure many people noticed the irony. I'm wondering if you didn't make that comment because Neko is, or has, reviewed you BUT that's irrelevant. If you're wondering why it's going on, it's because Neko provides a service most of the posters here don't have the spine or the guts to do. Be harsh, be critical, and be honest. Not only that, he's taking actual art lessons, so while he's smacking your inflated ego around, he's actually providing you useful tips and ideas that are sensical and professional.

I won't sugarcoat when I say he is needlessly harsh at times, but I think he does it for comedic effect...something to lighten the mood. Occasionally, that backfires. C'est la vie. Neko's not the only reviewer to review in this fashion; Duffies is also fond of tearing your work down to the nitty gritty and then picking that apart. Don't knock it, they're two of the very few useful reviewers around here.

Mind, don't be afraid to question something reviewed in the discussion thread. Some peeps will find that "unprofessional" and roll their eyes at you, but you may teach the reviewer something, and thats good too. Besides, who in here is actually "professional" anyways? At any rate, getting off tangents here.

Er...Tangent. Sorry.

A sugarcoated review is just an unprofessional as a venom filled snake pit of a review. You would do well to remember that, CG, and smile while you pick your poison, I guess.

[Sorcery101]

IDW guys review may have been filler with vemon, it was 2 pages of examples and was still construtive.

Thus far the meanest editor in comics (I forget his name at the moment) is no matter what you give him, he tells you that you're complete crap and should give up drawing. Then he hands your stuff back to you and unless you ask him "why do I suck?" that is all you get. Happened to my Drawing for Sequential Professor, who a few years later ended up drawing spiderman.

[Komiyan]

Stop saying sugarcoat! It makes me hungry for M&Ms every single time.

[Dotty]

Fine! I'll say sugarcrisp then!