Do we call ourselves wizards?

Earl McClaw · Post by **Earl McClaw** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:32 pm

So they're going to debate what they call themselves? Should be interesting.

The Guild of Wizards reminds me of a comment from the movie "1776", when the Congress' president (John Hancock) asked the New York representative why he keeps abstaining in every vote. The reply is that he's never received any instructions from the New York Assembly, which he describes as a lot of men yelling at eacy other simultaneously - and as a consiquence very little ever gets done.

I wish I could find an exact quote.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:54 pm

If you want some background info for this page, or just a refresher, may I refer you to the first "Meanwhile" arc. Especially this, this, and this.

It can hardly be called "trivial", though it means little to the students, and it doesn't matter so much in Rac Conan society. Now, if someone should venture outside the Mistwall and start interacting with humans...

well, suddenly language becomes so much more important.

Siirenias · Post by **Siirenias** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:37 pm

Why, thank you, my strange lupine friend. You beat me to it. However, I cannot foresee the removal of the tital, mainly due to a fondness for pointy hats.

Shyal_malkes · Post by **Shyal_malkes** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:40 pm

from the picture, I think I can see what I assume is supposed to be Master Rillcreek, as well as the Frog Mage (attired in blue and green respectively) within the tiers.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:52 pm

Or their clones.

The JAM · Post by **The JAM** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:28 pm

Do they? Well, if they can come up with a more proper term, then by all means, go right ahead.

Dapple · Post by **Dapple** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:06 pm

So monay pointy hats in one room. I just love this comic. I really do.

Agvulpine · Post by **Agvulpine** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:47 pm

Oh god. I knew this was coming.

I wish Christian authors weren't so wrapped up over things like, words, and fiction. But you gotta love the completely inaccurate description of pagan religions. hehe, demons.

so precious.

good bye story line. i knew thee well, horatio.

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:04 pm

agvulpine wrote:Oh god. I knew this was coming.

I wish Christian authors weren't so wrapped up over things like, words, and fiction. But you gotta love the completely inaccurate description of pagan religions. hehe, demons. so precious.

good bye story line. i knew thee well, horatio.

I think you are rather missing the whole point of the debate and this particular comic. They are not wizards. There are wizards in fantasy stories, but the Rac'conan ARE NOT WIZARDS. THEY NEVER WERE. If you read the archive, you find that lux is not magic.

Also, you misquoted Shakespeare. Which is terrible as well.

Axelgear · Post by **Axelgear** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:20 am

If I recall right it was "Alas, poor Yorik. I knew him well, Horatio, a man of infinite jest..." Or something like that, right?

And yeah, Lux isn't magic. Defining it as such would be the same as defining Earths magnetic field as magical.

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:48 am

Axelgear wrote:If I recall right it was "Alas, poor Yorik. I knew him well, Horatio, a man of infinite jest..." Or something like that, right?

And yeah, Lux isn't magic. Defining it as such would be the same as defining Earths magnetic field as magical.

Close, its "Alas, poor Yorick, I knew him, Horaito." Common mistake.

Anyway, and because lux is not magic, that is the reason they are having this debate.

Agvulpine · Post by **Agvulpine** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:00 am

More accurately, because Ralph is having a Christian moment; trying to validate his purpose in life as a Good Christian, and finding ways to incorporate a heavier hand of God into his comic, we have come back to the Harry Potter syndrome of the story.

PS. There's a difference between misquoting a work, and adapting it to your purposes. Considering NPC is not a "he", it would be unfitting to "know him well".

BrockthePaine · Post by **BrockthePaine** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:19 am

Atarlost · Post by **Atarlost** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:23 am

Actually, the real problem is that wizard has connotations of, well, wisdom. Have you ever known a legislative body or debating society to act wisely without first exhausting all possible follies?

Jfries289 · Post by **Jfries289** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:24 am

agvulpine wrote:More accurately, because Ralph is having a Christian moment; trying to validate his purpose in life as a Good Christian, and finding ways to incorporate a heavier hand of God into his comic, we have come back to the Harry Potter syndrome of the story.

PS. There's a difference between misquoting a work, and adapting it to your purposes. Considering NPC is not a "he", it would be unfitting to "know him well".

Ahem. Apparently, you are not terribly familiar with the storyline in general, and the nature of lux and this world's "magic" in specific. Perhaps you have some sort of beef with a perceived denigration of the term 'wizard' out of some association to paganism? Or perhaps you find annoyance in the very slight historical misrepresentation of the actual meaning of wizard (as in, didn't always necessarily refer to a user of magic). But in either case is inconsequiential.

I believe it was Arthur C. Clarke who said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." This is the quandary of the racconans when they interact with other sentient species. They understand and can use something the others cannot or have not conceived of, and so it appears magical. An educated racconan understands that what they do is not related at all to mysticism or demonology or any other thing traditionally connected with the term 'wizard', but is in fact merely a portion of their natural world that they happen to have an increased sensitivity to, like a wolf's increased sense of smell (not a direct correllation, but too bad

).

In any case, whether you agree with Ralph's christian beliefs or not, your disparaging remarks are baseless (and therefore insipid. I don't mean to be rude, but it is true.). If you can be forward thinking for a bit (and backwards understanding...), you will see that this particular comic page is quite pertinent to the storyline.

So, take a minute to move past your bias and think a bit more. Please don't take offense at that, but that's what you really need to do if you don't see the connection or understand the 'why' and 'wherefore'.

Also, on the Shakespeare. A proper 'adaptation' for your statement would have been some akin to "Alas poor storyline. I knew it well, Horatio."
What you said, "i knew thee well, horatio..." states that you knew horatio well, which makes no sense in this context and is definately a misquote. But anyways, trivialities.

Wayfarer · Post by **Wayfarer** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:46 am

Hmmmm... take a long time to type, and many others will post before you. Alas, I'll post this anyway.

agvulpine wrote:good bye story line.

If I'm understanding what you've said thus far (including the identification of this story move as a "Christian moment"), you're saying that Ralph is forcing a personal issue and thus making a poor move in an artistic storytelling sense. (If this is not your point, please disregard the rest of what I have to say.)

Aren't the middle of the story (or who knows; it could still be the beginning) and the first panel of a story arc a little soon to be making this declaration? We don't necessarily know where Ralph is going with this thread of the plot or what he'll end up accomplishing with it or how it will fit into the rest of the story (though, as others have pointed out, we already have hints). In fiction it's always at least possible that what seems insignificant or irrelevant at the time (and even for a long time afterward, potentially) will turn out to be a crucuial plot point in the end. I mean, the general topic of misunderstanding lux and lux-users has already come into play in Quentyn's interactions with both Sam and the peasant family, and there's still lots of potential for the matter to prove more and more important just in that.

Hypothetical story direction: I could see this arc in particular setting up to be a discussion that addresses problems Quentyn will run into when we return to him. Even if this were the case and nothing else were done with the discussion (though I know this scenario is more than likely off, and other things could be and have been tied in), it would have increased tension in the story by leaving us to wonder about the things set up for Quentyn, it would have added dramatic irony, and it might end up giving us new information that we'll need in order to understand what comes next with Quentyn.

Again, I know that entire scenario is pure speculation. But my point is that even if nothing had been done with the distinction between lux and magic to this point (which, as reflected in other posts, is arguable) you still wouldn't know that this wasn't part of the story line until the story was over, leaving no further chance for it to be tied in (or addressed in a sequel

). We don't have ground - and won't for a long time - for saying that this really is a poor move in the artistry of the storytelling... and the case as it stands rather leans against that conclusion.

As to the content itself... hey, there have been times when I either disliked, disagreed with, or found no value in what was done with an otherwise artistically sound piece of work. I'm free to do so, as are you; I tend to think that what's done with art - the content of the message - is more important than the technical aspect. But it would be inaccurate to use that judgment as grounds for saying the content or thing being done is irrelevant to the art (in this case, the story) itself.

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:53 am

*bangs on jfries289 with large soft squishy hammer*
SQUEAK!.....Shakespeare.....SQUEAK!......not..........SQUEAK!..........trivial!............SQUEAK!

Other than that, though, you are very correct. The reasons that humans thought is was magic is that they had no understanding of what lux was. Lux is not magic. Go read the archives. This is not some Harry Potter issue, RH does not really have a problem with that. I don't either. I like it. But aside from that, wizards pratice MAGIC. These guys do not pratice magic. They use lux, which is kind of like a part of the EM Spectrum. Like solar or heat energy (which is more or less the same thing but that is dside the point.)

Frigidmagi · Post by **Frigidmagi** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:46 am

The current storyline beginning is tied in with Meanwhile Part I

http://npc.comicgenesis.com/d/20040105.html Please Note lesson one:

A There are no such things as wizards
B There are no such things as spells, enchantments or magical artifacts
C There is no such thing as magic

http://npc.comicgenesis.com/d/20040107.html The nature of Luxcraft which is non occult and non supernatural in nature.

http://npc.comicgenesis.com/d/20040109.html Why Racconans use the words, wizard, witch, spell, enchantment and the word magic.

As you can see this has nothing to do with any newfound desire of the arthur to impart his own beliefs into the comics and everything to do with a debate within Racconan society over how Lux craft and Lux crafters should be approached, address and how they should behave.

Tom Mazanec · Post by **Tom Mazanec** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:47 am

It doesn't matter WHAT the "wizards" call themselves, if interaction with the outside world is what they are concerned with.
Racconan: I am a luxer.
Human: Wizard
Racconan: No, no, I use lux, not magic.
Human: Wizard.
Racconan: Lux is a part of nature like light. Magic is summoning spirits...
Human: Wizard.
Racconan: WILL YOU LISTEN? I AM NOT A WIZARD!
Human: Wizard.
Racconan (sighs): OK, wizard.

Agvulpine · Post by **Agvulpine** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:41 am

Yes, I'm well aware of the story line as I have been reading NPC since Feb 2002.

And yes, Lux is not "magic" in the anti-christian sense, however, "magic" has never had anything to do with demons or souls in any belief structure present or past. In fact, magic is most frequently assumed to be a flowing energy of life force such as Chi, Ki, Prana, Reiki, and other "free" energies which require no god or deity to subscribe to. It is this "open source" of energy and spiritual health that upsets Christians, just as Linux upsets Microsoft.

But, I'll leave it for you guys to decide. I could be completely wrong. I hope I am. I'm just connecting the dots here with Ralph's recent EMO whinings about his religious dissatisfaction with NPC; and specifically suggested that he doesn't feel he's converting enough readers into Christians.