There be goblins here...

Maxgoof · Post by **Maxgoof** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:48 am

Here is the random add-on she was speaking of:

http://utlt.comicgenesis.com/d/20041026.html
http://utlt.comicgenesis.com/d/20041115.html
http://utlt.comicgenesis.com/d/20050224.html
http://utlt.comicgenesis.com/d/20050306.html
http://utlt.comicgenesis.com/d/20050308.html

Shyal_malkes · Post by **Shyal_malkes** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:38 am

welllll, it seems ok so far I guess.

the redesign doesn't look too bad (some changes can be good) and I can learn to love them in time. (then again the drawing redesign was the least of my worries anyway)

but I'm interrested in plot, why goblins? and why them? is it only them or all tulpas? and if all tulpas then it can't be just because of Goblin Hollow can it? if they hatched then how did they get 'attatched' to Ben?

plot, that's what I'm mostly worried about, plot.

taking a closer loook.

eh the tuplas (I guess I should start calling them goblins now) look good. and they each have some aspects of their previous personalities and incarnations. *=(I like piff's getup) and Gunther seems to fit the role of goblin to a 'T' (or is that a 'G' in this case?)

I give this comic a "keep holding your breath because there is no disaster yet" rating

I can't keep holding my breath for much longer I'll pass out and need a druid to reincarnate me!

(D&D humor)

Wayfarer · Post by **Wayfarer** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:10 am

shyal_malkes wrote:I can't keep holding my breath for much longer I'll pass out and need a druid to reincarnate me! (D&D humor)

If you've only passed out, wouldn't it be enough to just, say, splash water on you or something?

As for the story changes...
Honestly, I liked the idea of tulpas. I thought it was interesting. And I found it at least as believable as goblins; the story was set up assuming them from the first, so it fit. I felt the story was consistent with itself and explained itself, and that's what mattered to me.

But that's just my opinion. It's not like I'd stop reading or anything. So hey, we'll see where things go.

Namrepus221 · Post by **Namrepus221** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:44 am

DracoDei wrote:I wouldn't exactly call the addition of Pif to be random... there was a good reason given for it, he fit into the existing group, and he wasn't introduced ex post facto the way the embodiment of mindless idiocy was.

Yes but he was created during a technically non-canon cross over with another comic.

JakeWasHere · Post by **JakeWasHere** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:06 am

Wait, if it was non-canon then where the crap did Piff come from? Piff was introduced in the leadup to the climax of that arc.

Ah, who cares. I think the MST3K mantra applies: "It's just a [comic strip] - I should really just relax."

Ransom Returns · Post by **Ransom Returns** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:20 am

Technically, the arc was (retcon withstanding) canon in that Ben really had the dream. Piff, like every other tulpa, was a manifestation of Ben's mind, so when Ben woke up there he was.

Labrusca · Post by **Labrusca** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:28 am

One fix (sort of) would be if the goblins could change shape. Then they could at least shift back to the "tulpa" appearance.

Siirenias · Post by **Siirenias** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:46 pm

Yeah, I liked tulpas too. It's a slightly obscure and non-streamline concept that gave the comic just that little added destinction (not that raising a handful of goblins isn't unique).

Namrepus221 · Post by **Namrepus221** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:52 pm

Siirenias wrote:Yeah, I liked tulpas too. It's a slightly obscure and non-streamline concept that gave the comic just that little added destinction (not that raising a handful of goblins isn't unique).

That is true.

Plus having them "hatch from eggs" does kinda add more problems. How are they still manifestations fo Ben's psyche if they are no longer a part of him? Or if they aren't why are they still acting like it...and where the heck did the "eggs" come from any ways.

I still liken this tomy "Crisis" analogy as well as what some other people said...Creating more problems than it's solving.

BrockthePaine · Post by **BrockthePaine** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:45 pm

Namrepus221 wrote:Plus having them "hatch from eggs" does kinda add more problems. How are they still manifestations fo Ben's psyche if they are no longer a part of him? Or if they aren't why are they still acting like it...and where the heck did the "eggs" come from any ways.

Because goblins take on one or two of the dominant traits displayed by the person who raised them.

Also, guys, something just struck me which should help calm a few of you: Penny said "brother-in-law". We can probably guess that nothing has happened to mess up Ben and Lily's marriage. You can now sleep easily...

Sting Chameleon · Post by **Sting Chameleon** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:50 pm

I really don't see the point of this. In fact, t'be perfectly honest, I'm suffering from a major New Coke reaction to it all.

I won't stop reading, quality is quality. But if this isn't all one big delusion, I'm gonna be pretty disappointed.

Earl McClaw · Post by **Earl McClaw** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:26 pm

So we've seen the revised posse - who are still going to tag along after Ben. Being hatched from eggs is just an alternate "spawining". There's no reason for this to otherwise affect their attachment to Ben.

Gunther looks junkier. Sheldon's fake shell is only a little better. Morty just doesn't look right with those big ears (but the wings are a perfect fit). The only thing I find really odd is their color.

Speaking of which - this appears to be another part of the retcon. Is this going to be a permanent part of the strip now?

Magpie_roost · Post by **Magpie_roost** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:38 pm

I'm bummed. I really liked the concept of the tuplas, and I'm not happy that they've all been turned into goblins. I had no problems with all the various subplots, I've enjoyed them all and the sheer amount just made it clear that this was one crazy life we were looking at. (And even when it didn't make complete sense, hey, it's just a comic...) I was throughly enjoying having personal flashbacks with the engagement issues (my hubbie had never told his parents about me until he brought me home), the arcade (always wanted to run one..), and the D&D sessions. (I won't claim any personal "tupla" flashbacks...)

Now I'm shell-socked (thus feeling the need to register and make a post), and even though I really really really hope it all works out well, I feel like a certain innocence of the story line might have been lost. This is one case where I'd love the goblins to be "just a bad dream" but with the forth wall officially broken, I realize this probably won't be the case.

I'm encouraged that most of you are saying that the author call pull this off. So I'll definitely keep reading for awhile. The quality of the comics he produces is excellent, I don't think anyone can deny that. But I seriously feel like the rug has been pulled out from under me, and personally I'm not sure I'll want to read about goblins. But I'm just one person, and obviously the author must have a very good reason to make such a major change. I hope it goes awesome. I just hope I recover 'cause I was really enjoying this ride...

Namrepus221 · Post by **Namrepus221** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:02 pm

BrockthePaine wrote:Because goblins take on one or two of the dominant traits displayed by the person who raised them.

According to whom?

Sorry to put you on the spot like this but this is the first time I've ever heard of this.

Shyal_malkes · Post by **Shyal_malkes** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:35 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
shyal_malkes wrote:I can't keep holding my breath for much longer I'll pass out and need a druid to reincarnate me! (D&D humor)

If you've only passed out, wouldn't it be enough to just, say, splash water on you or something?

darn it! I wanna get reincarnated as like a talking quirrel or something.

well, now that I've had a chance to mellow out I can recall that yes it is still Ralph that is making the comic so whatever he's got up his sleeve it's still from the same guy who made the origional...

then again I know of a lot of sequals that absolutely stank.

well, I guess that Ralph would have to sink a few notches (which wouldn't bode well for his other comics either) before I'd stop reading and for all I know I may like the changes.

gotta hand it to Ralph to get everyone talking over all this.

Zorro · Post by **Zorro** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:34 pm

Don't like them at all. Velvet is a white rabbit and always will be.

BrockthePaine · Post by **BrockthePaine** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:01 pm

Namrepus221 wrote:
BrockthePaine wrote:Because goblins take on one or two of the dominant traits displayed by the person who raised them.
According to whom?

Sorry to put you on the spot like this but this is the first time I've ever heard of this.

I'm part of the IRC group and Ralph often gives us IRCers a bit of heads-up on certain story ideas.

Jace · Post by **Jace** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:21 pm

Well, I think it kinda confuses the less-priveleged to state as fact things that aren't public or referential to an established source. But that aside...

I'm throwing my vote in for 'skeptical' about this change. Fact is, most of the earlier arcs, and some of the non-connected strips, depended heavily on the fact that the Posse were not, to all intents and purpose, real. The dream with the Clown of Old Nature is a good point, even if it didn't really happen, the final revelation, the escape into the tabula rasa, was too significant to lose. The meeting with Waarhorse, the 'invisible bunny', scaring Lilly's grandfather... even Sheldon honking Ben's nose and the posse going fluorescent under the club lights.

The rest of the strips didn't really need them at all, a la the confrontations with Beltane and the protestors. About the only thing I can see this not affecting is their contribution to catching Ookami Lobo, where they brought Ben in and otherwise mostly popped around. But even that storyline depended on 'tulpas' at the end, with the products of the 'tulpa master gone mad'.

To sum up, this just seems to throw everything that's gone before out the window. I'm sure Ralph can do a good story with this concept, I don't doubt his storytelling skills. I'm just hesitant about how this relates to the last six years.

Seriously, tomorrow it will have been six years. First strip was October 2, 2000. Isn't that a daisy?

Tuyu · Post by **Tuyu** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:54 pm

New Coke.

The existence of tulpas was the most unique thing about the comic. Now we have a world where goblins exist instead. Sounds almost like a crossover with Tales of the Questor is being arranged (as in arranged marriage).

If their appearance had to be changed, I would have preferred a clean break. The reminder of what they used to be is... unpleasant.

Sun tzu · Post by **Sun tzu** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:45 am

I don't get it.
Now, this is barely starting. It's far too early to criticize.
But so far, I don't get it. What's the point of this?
The posse as aspects of Ben's mind was an interesting concept. As goblins, they're...Generic? Less original, anyway. And wasn't this retcon supposed to make things less difficult to understand?

Mr Hayes has proven himself a talented storyteller, so he probably knows what he's doing...But so far, I fail to see the point of the exercize.