Comics colored on LCD screen look awful on CRT monitors

Reactor · Post by **Reactor** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:01 am

I draw my comics on a laptop with an LCD screen, and color them in a way that pleases me. I've noticed that when I view them in a cybercafe or other place with a CRT monitor instead of an LCD, the colors look awful! They are way too "hot", the yellows look greenish, the pale flesh tones of the characters have become deep ugly suntans.

Sigh. I put so much effort into coloring nicely, and then this happens. Any suggestions on dealing with this?

Mr. Caravaggio · Post by **Mr. Caravaggio** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:24 am

I had a laptop a while ago and noticed the colors were always cooler too. I don't think you can turn it up to burn high enough on an lcd.

Personally I think LCD's look awful in general, the colors are wrong, and it's always fuzzy...

What paint program are you using? Some, like PS, might have some color proofing tools that help.

If not, you might make a up a color pallette you like on a CRT monitor, then save the pallette file. Import it into your program on the laptop and use that pallette to color, even if it looks weird then on the lcd.

Wp · Post by Wp » Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:52 am

What kind of LCD screen do you have? Most LCDs have 6-bit colors, so color accuracy is not very good. Even with 8-bit, you still have to calibrate the colors. The brightness of an LCD is also much higher than on a CRT, so take that into account as well. Since it's a laptop screen, I'm not sure what else you can do other than hook your laptop up to a CRT.

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:53 pm

I've coloured for print on a laptop, so it can be done. But then I always check as much as I can, which at the very least means emailing it to myself so I can view it on another machine with a CRT (I should test-print but I'm currently printerless).

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:05 pm

This is why graphic designers use CRTs - Better colours. I can easily imagine laptop LCDs being worse since they're small and probably as cheaply made as reasonably possible.

- Joel Fagin

Warofwinds · Post by **Warofwinds** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:54 pm

Um, noob question here because I am so horrible with letters.... LCD is the flat, laptop screen or the big monitor? I know that compared to monitor, my laptop hscreen has much better color, it's brighter, and generally, much more crisp, but I've heard people complain that some of the colors on my pages are too bright, when on mine screen, they are merely "brightish". So, which is which?

Mr. Caravaggio · Post by **Mr. Caravaggio** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:02 pm

warofwinds wrote:Um, noob question here because I am so horrible with letters.... LCD is the flat, laptop screen or the big monitor? I know that compared to monitor, my laptop hscreen has much better color, it's brighter, and generally, much more crisp, but I've heard people complain that some of the colors on my pages are too bright, when on mine screen, they are merely "brightish". So, which is which?

How old is your monitor? They tend to darken after a while, so when you make your comic then yeah, it'll seem brighter to other people.

LCDs are the flat monitors, liquid crystal displays. The big ones are CRTs, or Cthode Ray Tube, kind of like a tv.

edt: if you're talking about the comic in your sig, then that actually looks like it has some decent contrast. Actually kind of dark in places...

Wp · Post by Wp » Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:17 pm

warofwinds wrote:Um, noob question here because I am so horrible with letters.... LCD is the flat, laptop screen or the big monitor? I know that compared to monitor, my laptop hscreen has much better color, it's brighter, and generally, much more crisp, but I've heard people complain that some of the colors on my pages are too bright, when on mine screen, they are merely "brightish". So, which is which?

There are plenty of 6-bit LCDs that look awesome, bright, and vibrant. But that doesn't mean they are accurate. For color accuracy, you will find a laptop just doesn't cut it. Professional LCDs (eizo brand) are thousands of dollars. Professional quality CRTs are only several hundred dollars. Well, it might cost a grand, but it's still 5x cheaper than a pro LCD.

Warofwinds · Post by **Warofwinds** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:56 am

Ahhhh, okay, thanks everyone. Very interesting.

Caravaggio, the monitor the rest of my family uses is quite old, and very dark. I never color comics on there anymore, and we've all put off on buying a new one. My dad bought me a -really- nice laptop as a going to college present, so I always thought the screen was as good, if not better than, the CRTs. As for my comic, it's the bright colors that come off as "ahh! my eyes!," so I stay away from certain parts in the spectrum. I think the comic is dark because that way my attempt at nighttime, heh. I should just stick to daylight

(Great, the next 20 pages are in the dark too, fah!)

Hale · Post by **Hale** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:36 pm

I've got a $200, 17", LCD Dell monitor and this thing is a demi god amongst monitors. I actually have to turn the brightness and contrast DOWN on this so that it won't burn my retinas, but I also have a samsung LCD (about $100) and it's poorer quality, but I never see any color bleeding on either. One thing I do notice though is that you DO have to tilt the monitor sometimes to see certain colors that are very similar to either pure white or pure black.

Having worked with photoshop comics for about 5 years now, I'd say desktop LCD is the best (for me) but Laptop LCD monitors can sometimes be a different story entirely. If you're hellbent on using a laptop monitor, plug it in so that you can turn the brightness and contrast levels up to the maximum.

Swiftbow · Post by **Swiftbow** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:08 am

My laptop and my new ($100!) CRT desktop monitor seem to view comics about the same in terms of color and such. Biggest difference I notice is its hard to look at LCDs from any angle other than straight-on. (Also CRTs are hella cheap right now, since stores are pushings LCDs so heavily, which is nice if you don't mind a big hunk of plastic on your desk

)

Jackhass · Post by **Jackhass** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:21 am

Well all the cool people on the Internet have flatscreen LCD screens by now anyways...so don't worry about those CRT losers.

Reactor · Post by **Reactor** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:43 am

Thanks for the replies. Well, I have a 5 year old laptop, but the screen still is very bright and looks fine. I think the colors on it look better than a CRT, and the text is definitely crisper.

But I notice this big difference in the colors every time I use a CRT in a cybercafe.

I don't know about 6 bit or 8 bit or whatever. I think I have my screen set to High Color (16 million colors or whatever). I don't know if it would make any difference if I set it to True Color (24,000 colors). I mean, I am just entering hex codes for my colors, and I usually just use the safer codes that don't require true color.

What is irritating is that, even if I can somehow make adjustments when I color new comics, my whole archive is suffering and I don't have the time to go back and re-color all my stuff (can barely find the time to do each new comic).

So, are we in agreement that cooler colors is a universal characteristic of the flat LCD screens? I guess the consolation is that, as Jackhass noted, more and more people are using LCD screens, and they are the wave of the future, with CRTs doomed to extinction within 10 years or less.

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:16 am

Reactor wrote:Well, I have a 5 year old laptop, but the screen still is very bright and looks fine. I think the colors on it look better than a CRT, and the text is definitely crisper.

They should be brighter but the colours are purer on CRTs.

I don't know about 6 bit or 8 bit or whatever. I think I have my screen set to High Color (16 million colors or whatever). I don't know if it would make any difference if I set it to True Color (24,000 colors).

True colour is 32 bit colour or 4,294,967,296 colours. That's more colours than the human eye can distinguish (hence "True"). It's what you should use for professional graphic art so definitly switch to it if you can.

I guess the consolation is that, as Jackhass noted, more and more people are using LCD screens, and they are the wave of the future, with CRTs doomed to extinction within 10 years or less.

Ten years sounds about right but it might also not happen if they hit a limitation somewhere. The history of LCDs has been a sustained effort to reduce their rather massive disadvantages as much as possible - and they still can't touch CRTs on a number of fronts (colour being one of them).

- Joel Fagin

Wp · Post by Wp » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:20 am

6-bit monitors can only display 262,144 colors. Dithering is used to get this amount to around 16.2 million colors. Even then, 8-bit LCDs get 16.7 million colors. I don't think CRTs have this limit. LCDs are brighter than CRTs because they have a lamp in the back that lights up the colors on the panel. This is also the reason why you will never get a true black color on an LCD. It will always be kind of grayish if you view it in a dark room. The main disadvantages to CRTs are convergence, geometry, and, of course, size, weight, power consumption, and supposed "eye strain" which probably shouldn't happen if you are running 100 Hz refresh.

LCDs are not the wave of the future and they will be always be a faulty technology. The new monitors based on LEDs and carbon nanotubes (I know nothing about this), will surpass LCDs and be equally flat. I think the closest one is SED, which will come at the end of 2006 to the consumer level. It basically is a matrix of tiny CRTs, from what I understand, much like an LCD but not with liquid crystals.

Swiftbow · Post by **Swiftbow** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:23 pm

Since CRTs also come in flatscreen, I've failed to see any real disadvantage to using them other than the large size. (which, incidentally, I like because I set a lot of things on top of my monitor, lol)

Subhuman · Post by **Subhuman** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:36 pm

Joel Fagin wrote:This is why graphic designers use CRTs - Better colours.

Maybe it's an old-school thing, because everyone in my graphic design course uses the new flat-screen iMacs.

As for the color difference, I had this same problem when I looked at my comic on my mom's old CRT monitor - everything looked darker and somehow bolder. I'd chalk it up to old equipment. Don't bother re-coloring your entire archives - the difference is probably negligible on newer CRTs, and if LCD use is indeed on the rise, it's not a huge deal anyway.

Swiftbow · Post by **Swiftbow** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:51 pm

Macs are some kind of bane to existence...

But really, I've long been curious: Why are Macs supposed to be better for graphics? Every time I've ever used one I've just been annoyingly frustrated at the clunky user interface and (at least with one of them) the frequent crashing and 10 minute boot-up.

Subhuman · Post by **Subhuman** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:02 pm

Something to do with how the Mac handles color, or 2D graphics, or something. I own one and I'm still not sure. Mostly it's just the industry standard, so you're supposed to go with the grain.

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:08 pm

Subhuman wrote:Maybe it's an old-school thing, because everyone in my graphic design course uses the new flat-screen iMacs.

Oh, well, a course. Those are rarely taught by anyone who's actually in the industry - otherwise they wouldn't be there.

It is possibly something of an elitist thing. CRTs are better, mind, but there's possibly also a bunch of people who have CRTs and then sneer at graphic designers who don't know their own trade well enough to do the same.

And, for some people, the coolness and professional appearance of LCDs outweigh the disadvantages. If you think about it, this is especially important for a course. I can see lots of students preferring to go to a college with LCDs rather than one with CRTs.

- Joel Fagin