The Philosophy Thread (Take Two)

[Garneta]

*Note: This first post is copied over from LJ (mainly...I changed a few words around, and added a bit, but the gist of it's the same...explaining the dreams), so you may've already seen it...but I thought I oughhta put it up here in order for my next post to make sense.*

Had four dreams last night. They've pretty much thrown me completely off balance all day today...can't stop thinking about them, analyzing them, etc...and I can't seem to shake this mystic kinda feeling that they were psychic dreams.

1. This first one (and the second) was about Richie and I. It was up here at this apartment sometime in the future; I guess we (or at least Jim and Scott...I think maybe I'd moved out by then) were having a party and he was there. It was nighttime (but not too late yet), and dark outside. A few of us were standing out on the balcony, and he and I were right next to each other talking a bit...I guess we'd finally moved past this not speaking to each other phase (but it felt like it hadn't been that long since we had).

His hand was on the railing, and I purposefully brushed mine up against it in a pretty obvious way. He didn't move away or say anything, so I moved my hand onto his and started kinda rubbing our fingers together. We kinda stopped talking at this point...I don't think we could talk, we were both a bit overwhelmed by what was happening. We stayed that way for awhile, and when we went back inside our hands were still locked together.

2. The second one was somewhere else...don't know where exactly, but I think it was the destination we were headed towards in the next dream. A dorm or flat or something somewhere (the walls were white, and it [the whole 'village' or 'camp' or whatever {I could see a little more than just our building due to the door being open}] looked to have been thrown together hastily) that a fairly big group of people were staying at for some reason, including Richie and myself, and James, and a few of our other friends and some random people.

We were all just sitting there hanging out one day (some were on beanbag chairs or regular armchairs. I was on this daybed sorta couch thing), and Richie comes over and sits next to me. It happened without words this time too...we somehow ended up holding each other. Even if we changed positions we still kept so close together (at one point he was sitting on the floor and I had my arms around him from behind; another time we were side by side and cuddling). Our eyes met, and I could tell that he'd been longing for me just as much as I've been for him, and that this time around it would last.

3. Now for the second two dreams...In one of them someone (The government? Some government, anyway) in authority was making a lot of people walk somewhere (a pretty long walk, too...more like a journey). I'm not sure if it was an evacuation or if they were marching us for some other reason (To a camp of some sort?...Maybe. Maybe it was a combination of both. Evacuating to a camp somewhere that we'd be safe.), but I think it was Spring. It was one of those misty mornings with hints of yellow and pink in the sky, chilly and warm at the same time, and the trees were all green.

At one point we went over a really long bridge. It took awhile; they were stopping people at either end for something or other (Talking, maybe questioning? I'm pretty sure they were stern, but kind). We eventually got to the other side (The bridge led from one state to another, and went over a large interstate [although there were no cars driving below]) and I looked back across. There was a shady cemetery nestled in the trees, and people were walking around in it; putting up monuments (there was a big tan [with an orange tint] angel statue a few people [well, two] were carrying [for some reason I knew that it wasn't heavy, but it was big enough to need two]) or just wandering around hopelessly looking for certain graves.

While I gazed over there, I felt strongly like I should go back and help, or comfort...but I knew I couldn't. Either way I was already over the bridge, and there was no going back. I knew that even had I felt like I could go, the men on the bridge wouldn't have let me anyway.

4. In the last one I was on a school bus. I'm not sure why I was on a school bus per se, just that I was trying to get somewhere (My parents house I think, so that I could go somewhere else from there) and that was the way to do it. It was in Arkansas, but the places were just different enough from real life to make it weird. There were a lot of Mexican people on the bus (Not all, but a lot). I didn't know anyone on there (except I think maybe the girl I sat with for awhile, until she got off...I think she was my friend from WoW, who lives in Puerto Rico). I was sitting in the very back seat, on the right hand side.

While the bus was driving along, I was thinking of pretty epic stuff...where I was going and why I needed to be there, of love (my Richie), philosophy, of life in general and the arts; specifically poetry and painting (but I was thinking about all of it in a really abstract way...feeling more than thinking, I guess). I knew that for some reason I was important to humanity and that I had to accomplish something big, and that I was gonna be remembered for it (maybe it was something I'd write...I was thinking about poetry, after all). That was why I was on this bus, after all. It was the first step towards doing whatever it was that I needed to do.

At one point, a mexican boy of about 5 or 6 got on. He sat in the back too, in the seat opposite me. Suddenly he ran up front when the bus stopped at this brown house (the wood was brown anyway; there were also rocks making up it's structure) down a little dirt road in the outskirts of the woods. (I'm thinking it was late summer in this dream; the trees were all dark green and there was this autumnal feeling in the air) The boy didn't want to get off, so he was crying pretty badly...but for some reason the driver had edicted that he get off there and then (and the driver knew what should be done), so get off he must (for some reason I got the feeling that the boy's father was abusive to him).

I myself waited until the stop after that. It was at this building by a curve in the road, and it had a gravel parking lot (It's a real building on Highway 7...when I was little my parents had some friends who lived in the log cabin across the street from it). As I got off the bus, I looked up at it's yellow side. I knew that things had changed now...because of the boy getting off at the previous stop, I now had to do something else before I could set out to accomplish my original task. It would take longer now to get to where I was going (I think there may've been a chain of events that I knew I'd have to go through), but for some reason I was calm and patient about everything, a lot more than I would've been in real life.

[Ciararavenblaze]

what three questions would you ask God if you ever got to sit down and actually talk face-to-face with him?

[Garneta]

*This was originally in the fair to middlin' thread, but really it didn't seem to belong there. Couldn't have gone in the happy or unhappy threads either, as I've had more of a neutral 'mystic' feeling about the whole thing. Anyway, I decided to move it over to this thread, and to also copy over my post from LJ this morning as a prelude to this one.*

I'm a bit disconcerted because of the four dreams I had last night. (A bit...heh; Hell, I haven't been able to stop thinking about them all day.) The way they all seemed so...not real per se, but more like beyond real...I think they're predicting something big. Not weather stuff (Although I've been saying that's coming for years and I still hold to it) but something that involves the whole country (or perhaps more than just this country), stemming from the political/economical stuff that's going on now (Starting now, anyway...I think these last few years were just a prelude to what's really coming).

Either way, I do hope the dreams were of the psychic variety (I have a feeling they were, but I could be wrong)...especially since two of them involved Richie and I getting back together (we didn't actually talk much in those, and from the kinda awkward way it felt before we did get together, I think that means that either way it'll still be awhile, and that there's more rocky ground for us to get through before we can ). I don't want the dreams to be psychic ones just because of the Richie and I part, mind you...I think that we as a people actually need this something big--whatever it may be--before we can progress any further.

The bridge really played a big part in that one dream; I'd noticed my focus on it earlier...but at the time I didn't realize quite how much symbolism it possessed. It was a long bridge going from one State to another...Well, if these dreams really do foreshadow us going through something that'll change us and affect us (as all big events in history have tended to do) that drastically...we'll be going from one way of life (or 'state' of life) to another.

Hm...wonder if the graveyard played a part in that symbolism too? It was on the other side of the bridge, after all. Maybe the people in it were either helping to put the past to rest (like the ones holding the statue) or trying to hang on to it as long as they could (the ones wandering around) before having to move on. That's probably why I felt I couldn't go back, but wanted to at the same time...I was a bit scared of the unknown that was coming up, but at the same time I knew that I was one of the ones that had to move on for some reason or another (which ties in to the fourth dream and me knowing in it that I was destined to do something).

*Quick edit: Cyndi, would you mind terribly much if I deleted your post so that my two can be together? You can re-post it...I just don't think I can move posts is all...*

[Ciararavenblaze]

I don't understand why you need to move it, but fine. your board, not mine. but I'd rather you didn't. I don't see why it needs to be done, so... *shrug*

and I don't think those dreams were necessarily psychic so much as they were a case of your brain filing away things and replaying some wishful thinking, perhaps.

it's always hard to tell with dreams, though, until whatever it is actually happens, or unless it follows a similar pattern as other dreams that were psychic.

some people, for example, only have psychic dreams that involve the loss of someone via death or the end of a relationship (friendship included), others have more abstract dreams that they relate to something that happens shortly after they have a dream of that sort.

[Garneta]

It's just a really strong feeling that I have about these dreams. Not sure why. Usually I can't tell that they're psychic until after things actually happen in real life.

(I won't delete that post then, if you don't want. I'd just planned for my two posts to be together is all, and it kinda irks me that there was something posted between them.)

[Ciararavenblaze]

well, I believe that souls can communicate to each other... and that dreams are one way that they do so. (I had a conversation once with my grandfather, not too long after he died, in a dream... shortly after my dog Stoney died, he showed up in a dream, etc... but it's not always dead people)

it's ENTIRELY possible, Kat, that you and Richie were essentially hanging out and communicating with each other in your dreams.

[Garneta]

That...kinda blows my mind; I never thought of it that way. Of course I have heard of people astral travelling together; I guess that's in the same ballpark. To be honest though, even though those two dreams were my favorite part of last night's dream sequence (especially the second one...god I miss holding each other like that, and looking in each others eyes, and just being together), and the part that I hope to high heaven comes true, the one that's really gotten to me is the dream with the bridge. I just can't shake that, "Oh my god, something big's coming" feeling, and it's...kinda...I don't even know how to describe it exactly. Mixture of curiosity, dread, and excitement, maybe?

Never did answer your question...If there did turn out to be a deity, and I got the chance of a meeting, I wouldn't ask him/her/it anything specific that retained to myself or even the future of humanity. There are some things that people just have to figure out for themselves, after all. I'd ask something like, "How do you deal with such responsibility?" or, "Do you ever get lonely?" Maybe something like, "What's your favorite creature?" or, "What do you like to do to relax?"

[Ciararavenblaze]

heh heh!

I'd ask God if he really would let someone like Tori Amos give him a day off--like she used to say she wanted to do, hence her song called "God". then I'd ask him for tips on how to combat the stupidity that is the human race as a whole... and then I'd ask him how he felt about people (especially Christians, Muslims, etc.) who used his so called words to further their own agenda.

and yeah--the idea of talking to souls is not a new concept to me--anymore. but looking back on it was really quite mind-boggling for me too. but how people are on the soul level... is not exactly how they are on the human level, I've found. on the soul level, the person you're talking to is more... "pure", I guess you could say. humans are not perfect--but then, think about it this way: cars certainly are not perfect, either. certainly less so than a human is. (my belief is that souls occupy human bodies like humans occupy cars or other heavy machinery)

[Garneta]

on the soul level, the person you're talking to is more... "pure", I guess you could say. humans are not perfect--but then, think about it this way: cars certainly are not perfect, either. certainly less so than a human is. (my belief is that souls occupy human bodies like humans occupy cars or other heavy machinery)

Good analogy there. Although I've kinda thought of it that way myself, I'd never have thought to describe it in a 'car-esque' sort of way.

[Ciararavenblaze]

it makes sense when you think about that and then think about the idea (possibility) of souls exiting their "vehicles" (but not completely--or else you'd actually die) when you sleep... and then dreams happening.

[Ruby Falls]

I would ask God one question: why?

I think that would answer all my questions.

[Ciararavenblaze]

I'd ask God why the fuck my brother and father have to be such fucking assholes, actually...

[Garneta]

You think music will one day be a key to help with solving some pretty big world peace-y type problems?

(This thought comes from a friend of mine, by the way...she mentioned it a couple months ago and it comes to mind at the moment.)

[Ruby Falls]

That's a really good thought, Kat. I hope one day we can find music that could bring the world together.

[Garneta]

When I had the conversation with her I mentioned, "Well what about ALL arts? Theatre and painting and such?" and she said, "Nope. MUSIC." (I'm pretty sure she's kinda like I am in the 'stubborn set in her own thoughts hippyish' way, and she's freaking awesome by the way, just had to mention it!)

I can see it, yeah...but as I'm kinda a sucker for the other arts too, I still hope that they all someday get appreciated more than they are now (damn sports in schools overtaking the arts programs and such!).

[Ciararavenblaze]

yeah--but how many people do you know get inspired to do something like join the military (or, on the really-bad side of things, kill somebody or go on a rampage of sorts) by looking at a painting?

Tori Amos once said something (I can't remember or find the exact quote) about... "music has frequencies in it that reminds you that you're more than this thing that eats, shits, makes money and cums." and I think she's definitely correct.

[Ruby Falls]

What do you guys think of Jesus? I'd like to hear opinions.

[Jonmisc]

I think that a lot of the people who claim to follow Jesus need to get their Bibles out and take another look at the stuff written in red.

*edit* I hit "submit" and realised I didn't really answer the question. I also realise that my original post above also applies to me.

What do I really think of Jesus? (I believe that was the question; it won't show me previous posts while I'm editing an existing post). I think Jesus was a dreamer, as all of us on here are. He could see that bright future without prejudice and fear; that future that is free of ignorance; that future in which all the children know how to read.

I think Jesus would be appalled at a lot of the things that have been done and that are still done in his name. I would give examples, but I'm confident that readers of this forum know history (and it's quite a bit to type out).

I also think Jesus would have been rather easygoing between sermons (though I might be a bit biased; I'm easygoing myself, for the most part) and I should think he had a sense of humour as well.

Don't take it the wrong way, but Jesus is someone I'd like to have a drink with.

[Ciararavenblaze]

I pretty much agree with Jonnie. I also think that if Jesus were to come back, he'd take one good look at everything happening (especially at everything being done "in his name") and probably have to REALLY fight hard to resist the urge to tuck tail, turn RIGHT around, and run away, while screaming, "LET ME BACK IN, LET ME BACK IN!!!"

[Ruby Falls]

Don't take it the wrong way, but Jesus is someone I'd like to have a drink with.

I like it. I understand what you mean, Jonnie.

As a Christian, I believe that Jesus is the son of God. I think He was a pretty cool dude, too. I think He'd love to spend quality time discussing philosophy with His friends, but also enjoy a really good joke. Even if it turns out that He's not the Messiah, at least He's been a good role model for millions of people.