Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:44 pm

What does everyone think of converting this to 4e? My only worry is that combat has more rounds. They're quicker, but that doesn't really help on a forum. :)
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Thunderhowl on Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:03 am

I don't have the books, which might be a detriment.
Mind you, I didn't have the books for 3.5 either, but at least 3.0 was close enough that I didn't need them to play. As I understand it, that isn't the case with 4e, as it is a competely different animal from 3.5.
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:30 pm

[Warning: Fanboy]
Completely different. If you're invested in 3e, you're probably going to hate it. It's basically its own game under the D&D label - More of an alternate D&D direction than a continuation. If you can get past that, though, I think it's better.

It is more video-gamish in combat style, but I think in a good way. Your powers mean you can always do something cool - It could be the same thing you did last round, but that depends on the tactical situation, as it should.

For example, against the animated statues, I mostly used Eldritch Blast because it was the highest-damage and it's Charisma vs. Reflex. But, I also tried Eyebite after one of them fell down, because its secondary effect is a round of invisibility versus the target and I was right next to it - The one it would attack when it stood up. Didn't work, but that's not a fault of the rules, I just rolled low.

(That's another change - You basically have six attack values (Your attributes) and four defences (AC, Fort, Reflex and Will) - Which means no more constant wiffing versus the high-AC monster; you switch around attacks until you find a weak defence. Tactical, as it should be.

Against the skeletons, Dire Radiance saw much use, as undead are vulnerable to radiant damage and Dire Radiance does an extra d6 if your opponent moves closer on their next turn - And it was a maneuver battlefield. And now that the game is over, I'm realizing there's other tactics we missed that we could have used. :)

And that's another thing. There's not a single class that you *Need* to have to succeed. All of our characters were support characters and while the cleric did keep us all from dying, so could a warlord, a paladin or even a fighter to soak damage and deny enemy advantages. (That's another thing. Clerics are far more than a heal-bot and fighters can do a lot more than 'I attack')

Contrary to some doomsayers, spontaneous actions that don't depend on powers are not out - They may even be easier. (Roughly what happened) Wizard: 'I use mage hand to fling the lantern at the hobgoblin'. GM, maybe ten seconds later (Realtime): 'Roll Intelligence versus Reflex'. Roll failed, but again, not a fault of the rules.

And customization of powers? I looked at about 8-10 random powers of the same level and was able to mix, match and balance them by eye in seconds. Only one of the new powers actually seemed to need balance work.
[/Fanboy]

But yeah, buy it and form your own opinion. I'd suggest you play a session, too. :)

And, as a warning, you won't be able to make the exact same character. The same type of character, yes, but not the exact same. Barbarians, Druids and Bards aren't in there; neither are half-orcs. However, the classes will be making a reappearance in additional books. (Can't remember about the half-orcs, but probably them, too).
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Tom the Fanboy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:38 am

I have far fewer critiques of the system and more critiques of the fanboys. Clerics in 3rd edition were ALWAYS more than just bandages! The addition of domains and spell sacrifice for healing made them much more functional and flexible. Depending on the degree of dogma involved the Cleric could wade into combat along side the fighter.

Most of the clerics I played with were annoying the fighters because they'd buff themselves and dive in and leave the fighter without enchantment.

Anyway, I guess I'd be OK with switching over to 4th edition. Let me look at converting Korgan and we'll talk.
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:27 pm

I suppose I could have put that better about clerics. My fanboy overtook me; a better answer would be the cleric doesn't have to heal near as much (Or even at all) - All the characters can heal themselves once per encounter (Second Wind); there seems to be a few powers per class that heal the character (Even the fighter has at least one) and even without healing potions, a high-defence defender (Role) can perform the same basic function by drawing enemy attacks and soaking.

Also, the real damage value is how many healing surges you have left for the day; healing powers, yours and others, use those, so if you have some left you can second-wind yourself back to health after an encounter.

Thanks for telling me I'd gone too fanboy. :D
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Tom the Fanboy on Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:38 am

Narf the Mouse wrote:Thanks for telling me I'd gone too fanboy. :D


No problem, I have plenty of experience with being a bad fanboy ;)

Anyway, I don't think that there should be a problem with people not having the PHB.
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:56 pm

...How? I mean, kinda hard to make a character when you don't know the rules, or at least an approximation of them.
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Tom the Fanboy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:37 am

Narf the Mouse wrote:...How? I mean, kinda hard to make a character when you don't know the rules, or at least an approximation of them.


No no, I mean that we should all have a PHB by now.
<_<
Capiche?
>_>
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:22 pm

Ah, that makes much more sense! :D
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:39 pm

I realized today I've lost track of XP totals, but I think you've fought enough monsters - Make 2nd-level characters.
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Tom the Fanboy on Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:57 am

OK, 2nd edition 4th Ed characters..... Where's that character sheet? XD

Rowan: http://www.3edb.com/viewCharacter.asp?cid=16090

Korgan Stonefoot: http://www.3edb.com/viewCharacter.asp?cid=16108

Now, I guess I could just email you a copy once I'm done Narf. PM me with your email.

Should we keep our attributes the same?
I dug out my original dice rolls!
17, 15, 16, 13, 17, 4
This was before he got the racial modifiers, so now he'd have
STR 17 DEX 15 CON 18 INT 13 WIS 19 CHA 4
Mmmmm, 19! Wisdom based attacks are going to be fun, too bad Korgan values Strength more.
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:46 pm

Yeah, keep your original die rolls. Nerfing isn't fun.
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:25 pm

A rough...Well, not so much a conversion guide as a conversion pointer.Here.
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:24 pm

Thunderhowl wrote:I don't have the books, which might be a detriment.
Mind you, I didn't have the books for 3.5 either, but at least 3.0 was close enough that I didn't need them to play. As I understand it, that isn't the case with 4e, as it is a competely different animal from 3.5.

Just made my Save vs. Forgetful GM'ing...You need help? I could make a character to spec and then present for approval?
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Thunderhowl on Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:38 am

Hmm. I don't have a lot of free time to read my "email" so if you could take Rowan and convert him as closely as possible, I'd be willing to go from there as long as I get the chance to Writers Remorse the things I really don't like.

Also, to warn you Tom, in 4e you can't hide from the MMORPG slang. :P
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:40 pm

I'll be testing out the random dungeon/encounter rules in the 4e DMG; I've run myself a solo dungeon and it seems to work well. Although lack of a healer does mean more frequent trips outside to rest.

If that gets annoying, I can provide a healer NPC to follow you around and cast 'Use Healing Surge'...Oh, excuse me - 'Healing Word'. :D
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:44 pm

I do need some data from you; Fighters get Athletics, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate and Streetwise (The skills have been streamlined), you get three. Your sheet only suggests Athletics.

Also, Fighters are Defenders in the new 3e combat role system. Rangers and Rogues are Strikers and since Rangers are no longer half druid, one of them may work better for a tactical, maneuver character, which yours seems to be. (Or you could pick Warlord to give bonuses to those around you, but that doesn't seem to fit).

May help to think about what you're looking for in terms of what your powers will do. Don't worry about game terms or what's in the rulebook; just toss me some ideas. :)
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Tom the Fanboy on Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:44 pm

Thunderhowl wrote:Also, to warn you Tom, in 4e you can't hide from the MMORPG slang. :P


I've come to terms with some of it. I had a cathartic little rant on my blog.

The only ones that really get to me still are "mobs" and "DPS".

As far as healing goes, I'm not worried. Never had been. I'm playing a friggin' cleric of Kord, he's not going to be wasting healing just because we're at less than full hit points. Those player parties that quit adventuring for the day just because the cleric ran out of spells are WUSSIES!

I'm having some trouble figuring out what exactly to do with all those Channel Divinity Powers. I wasn't sure how many I started with.

http://pockyclub.elite-otaku.net/Korgan_print.pdf
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Narf the Mouse on Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:06 pm

I'm not sure, either - I was going to ask on the WotC forums, but they're down for the moment.
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Re: Anyone up for a dungeon crawl? OOC thread

Postby Thunderhowl on Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:47 am

Narf: Rowan is a swashbuckler. I have no idea how that will work in the new edition, but he's more of a scrapper than a tank. Maybe that would make him a ranger?
I was going to dual-class him fighter-rogue in 3.5 if that helps you choose his power stunts or whatever they are called. I see him as a swordsman who uses knives as a backup, throwing and weilding.
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