YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

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YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Celey on Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:50 pm

Latest comic... Feb. 10....

"So you think I should turn myself in?" - Lightbringer...

Why do I love this scenario so much? I can't say... There are just some situations I never get tired of! It will be interesting to see how this plays out...

So, what do the rest of you think? Made of awesome? Cliched? Interesting? Maybe we can get a discussion of some sort going? Please and thank yous? :D

*Pokes the forum* It sure is dead in here... I'd hate to be the only one making a topic... //>.>\\'... (On the few forums I do visit, I usually wait until someone else makes a topic before I make another one... but... if I did that here, I'd probably be waiting for quite a while...)
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Re: YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Sun tzu on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:47 am

It's...interesting.
I'm unsure of where this is headed. I just hope Carter can find a way to keep doing the right thing without, well...Ah, I've explained my positions at length in the other thread.
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Re: YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Celey on Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:27 am

Without resorting to full-on vigilantism? Right? Don't think that would happen if he allows himself to be detained...

Anyway... The uncertainty is kind of a good thing, isn't it? Keeps you on your toes... :)
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Re: YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Nifar on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:12 am

Honestly, he really should just join the police force. The only way I see superheroes working in a realistic universe is if the government creates special laws and special branches of law enforcement to deal with them, and I just don't see that happening, especially since there's so few people with superpowers in this universe.
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Re: YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Alschroeder on Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:04 am

I was thinking the other day about the Silver Age Superboy, and how police chief Parker might have deputized HIM...

Then I wondered if that would be any trouble because he's a minor---

And then I remembered he was nonhuman, so his age is irrelevant. He'd be the equivelent of a police dog, legally. *Grin*

ANYway....I'm enjoying Lewis trying to have his cake and eat it too, as all superhero writers must---trying to balance the letter of the law with the desire for justice which is at the heart of most super-heroics. The early Superman and Batman ignored the law and did what was right, which is fine if a little terrifying if you can't absolutely trust the individual.

Which is one reason I have my character, Mindmistress, not out to save everyone, and also keep her existence secret. Otherwise, she'd soon have the same dilemma Lightbringer has.

But it's a very INTERESTING dilemma, Lewis, and what would be wrong for MM is very, very RIGHT for Lightbringer, who is, more even than most of us, trying to balance what's right with what's legal.---Al
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---Think the superhero genre is mined out? Think all the superhero ideas have been done?
Think again.
Also check out http://www.webcomicsnation.com/alschroeder/flickerflame/series.php--Flickerflame</a>
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Re: YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Celey on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:55 am

CAKE?! WHERE? //O.O\\

... Umm... Eh... Ahem... //>.>\\'...

Superboy looks human, though... How would they be able to tell whether he was an alien or simply a super-powered human boy? He'd probably have to produce proof that he comes from another planet, and therefore, cannot technically be called human.

Then again... They might see him coming from another planet the same as if he were coming from another country... He'd still have to follow the laws of the country that he's currently in...

... But I'm getting off topic...

I like that... Even though, people are starting to call Lightbringer a vigilante... (Even though, in the "Ends Justify the Means" topic, I believe we've established that Lightbringer might have broken... what? One or two laws? Not very many, at any rate... Most of what Lightbringer does is... well.... heroics... Saving people... protecting people from harm...)... He seems to put quite a lot of faith in the justice system and such...

Given that he regularly consulted the police... and also has his own lawyer for his superhero side... and is willing to put his fate into the hands of the justice system itself... There's a lot of people, in real life, that don't have that kind of faith in the justice system...

Hmm... Perhaps that's why I like to see that superhero-turns-himself/herself-in-to-clear-their-name scenario... It's nice to see such optimism... :)
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Re: YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Sun tzu on Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:24 am

I like that... Even though, people are starting to call Lightbringer a vigilante... (Even though, in the "Ends Justify the Means" topic, I believe we've established that Lightbringer might have broken... what? One or two laws?

1)It's still debatable how many the criminals he arrests can actually be thrown in jail, given he doesn't follow police procedures. In the Slavers storyline, the police and FBI basically used him as a way to avoid having to do things by the books, which is pretty morally gray already.
2)Well, now his superheroing is illegal, courtesy of the mayor. If he ignores that, he's saying that his choices as an individual carry more weight than those of an official who was elected by the people.
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Re: YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Celey on Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:13 pm

He doesn't look like he's ignoring the gravity of the situation to me... //>.>\\'
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Re: YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Core on Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:43 pm

This is some very interesting reading that has so many ways out of it, if you are creative enough to think of them. ;)

The mayor has outlawed Lightbringers "costume-brand vigilantism", making it illegal for him to go around in a costume and enforce the law within the sight of police officers or risk being arrested, and has been ordered to turn himself in. If you look at things Lightbringer is enacting citizen's arrest on criminals, but wants to remain anonymous so hides his identity with a mask. Both of which are in his right to do, depending on the laws of the land since every place on this Earth has its own set of laws. ( Such as one of my favourite laws to point out as unreasonable as the law that makes it illegal in some parts of Texas to engage in sexual acts that do not result in a child or children, which was used against a gay couple to make the police breaking into their home legal and charge them with wrong doing. Police got a complaint of loud noises coming from the house by a neighbor, so they broke in thinking that someone was in trouble only to find a gay couple engaged in a sexual act. So they arrested the couple on the original charge of disturbing the peace, and then after some research the state brought up that old law; which was originally written to prevent acts of bestiality and used it in the context of consensual homosexual sex. )

Going back to the citizen's arrest subject, which many people may be aware of and states that a citizen of a jurisdiction that is not a member of law enforcement is allowed to arrest a criminal in the jurisdiction that they reside. It is an old law that has been around for generations and has been invoked many times, but it does open up a whole other can of worms when used. This is because it opens the person up to being sued for false arrest, kidnapping, assault, and a whole host of other charges that could be brought against them if it is found the civil rights of the accused were violated. But we don't know if this law even applies in Pharos City since laws are different from city to city and country to country, and we don't have access to all the laws that they have. It's not like it is written somewhere... Unless the wonderful creator actually has a book somewhere where he's written down every single law of the city, and has it tucked away under a green cushion next to morpher. ;P

Now, if it is legal for someone to invoke citizen's arrest in Pharos City, then that could be one way out for Lightbringer, but that also leaves him open to legal retribution since a criminal can charge him with wrong doing or violating their civil rights. This has been addressed before when Lightbringer was brought to the stand as a witness for his part in the FBI's operation against the Slavers. Thanks to the legal foot working by his lawyer he was able to get around letting everyone know his identity and assert his legal rights to use a mask to protect himself and those he knows from retribution by other criminal elements. Maybe she can do some more and get him out of this hornet's nest that the Mayor has stirred up, but then there are the others to consider and the other ramifications of such a broad law that the Mayor seems to want to put into effect. Sure she is targeting Lightbringer and his associates, but what is to stop others from being associated with them just for doing the same things or just from being inspired by them? We've already seen in past issues that others around the world have been inspired by Lightbringer to use their abilities for good, so who is to say that next it won't be one of them that the law goes after.

Lightbringer might have started out with just wanting to protect and work on one city, not trying to change the world. But like many other things, what happens in one city can spark a global change. I'm sure that Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria would agree with that. ;)
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Re: YES!! I was hoping this kind of scenario would happen!!

Postby Celey on Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:13 pm

I am not a lawyer nor a law student. I haven't taken any law classes. Just want to put that out there right off the bat... But as far as I can tell...

There appears to be a fine line between citizen's arrest and vigilantism. As near as I can tell... Lightbringer has only crossed the line once... Regarding his method of "interrogation," which could be seen as a form of torture. (Sure, Lightbringer didn't seriously injure the guy, but some people really have a broad definition of torture...)

From what I understand (from browsing a couple of sites that aren't Wikipedia)... The right to make a citizen's arrest is lawful if the criminal is in the process or is committing a felon... or if it is in aid of a law enforcement officer or other person authorized by law to make an arrest... The parameters of citizen's arrest seem to vary state by state... (In Kentucky, and I'm not sure if this has changed or not, the state law holds that a person witnessing a felony must take affirmative steps to prevent it, if possible... and are even allowed to kill a fleeing felon while making a citizen's arrest)

In fact, it can even be argued that the right to make a citizen's arrest is protected by the Ninth Amendment in the Constitution...

And you, Core, have already stated how citizen's arrest can open up a can of worms when used... So, that doesn't bear repeating...

I think Lightbringer has some good, solid ground to stand on... Especially considering there have been numerous times where he has acted in such a way as to be "in aid of a law enforcement officer." The Chief, for instance...

It wouldn't be surprising if Linkara did have some kind of document that has written down most of the laws of the city... //>.>\\'... Some writers can be pretty thorough in their work, even if they're not going to use a particular element in the story... It gives you a better feel for the setting...

I'm not so thorough as to write down every single law for every city I create... But I do (usually when making up a fantasy or sci-fi setting) get pretty thorough in regards to cultural elements (such as festivals, religions, state of dress).... landmarks... geography... history... ecology... That sort of thing...

Anyway, it seems Linkara may go the citizen's arrest route for Lightbringer... But... Then, there's the matter of Osprey... And the accusations that she's a minor.... I'm really unsure of how that will be dealt with... And it probably has to be dealt with in such a way as to not compromise her identity... or make her give up crime-fighting...
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