Comic Genesis Forums

by **SteveB** on Thu Mar 22, 2001 10:50 am

Don't be too dead set against the graphic novel format. Next time, try Borders instead of Barnes & Noble. At least here in St. Louis, where I live, there's a BIG difference between the two.It's true most Borders stores do segregate the graphic novels out from the printed literature, but they have their own section, neither in "Humor" nor "Science Fiction" (at the best store they're next to the plays, which makes a kind of sense). All the Borders stores here carry more graphic novels than almost any of the local comic shops, and they shelve them attractively.At B&N they have 20 or so often mangled copies interspersed with role-playing books on a section of the sci-fi shelves. Yuch! (Although, sadly, many of the comics shops aren't much better.)And, as a matter of fact, although most of the graphic novels are together, I once saw "Road to Perdition," by Max Allan Collins and Richard Piers Rayner, in the Mysteries at one of the local Borders shops.The format may have had something to do with this -- it's the same size as an ordinary trade paperback, a little larger than a mass market paper but smaller than most graphic novels (8" X 5-1/2"). That may have helped.If Max Allan Collins can do it, so can you!(I've also seen "Maus" under "Judaica" at another store -- a local non-chain store -- but then that store had all the graphic novels under "Humor" and I think Maus has garnered enough attention that they realized how absurd that would be)Next time you're looking for a serious comic book, try Borders instead of B&N. And if you see something on the graphic novel shelf that cries out to be placed somewhere else in the store, bring it to the attention of the manager (or surreptitiously move it yourself!)

by **Tim Broderick** on Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:59 am

Thanks Steve!I'm not really giving up on graphic novels so much as I'm intending that whatever gets published will be placed in the mystery section. Somehow reprints of comic books, to me at least, shouldn't really count as a graphic novel. When you get into titles involving Batman and Superman, these guys are corporate icons. They're just not really in danger of death - their relationships and character development are governed pretty closely by continuety. On the other hand, Agatha Christie killed off Hercule Poirot, Colin Dexter killed off Inspector Morse, I just might kill of David Diangelo. There will always be the fear of death, dismemberment or retirement. I think Diangelo will age, and his life may change based on that aging. So until my perception of the graphic novel section changes (that it's being flooded with corporate knock-offs overwhelming what could be considered true graphic novels), I think I'd rather be placeds somewhere else on the shelves.And "Road to Perdition" is right now being shot as a movie around the Chicago area, so things may really be changing fast!BTW, are you the Steve who works in the newspaper library?------------------
Tim Broderick
Someday, all jobs will be<A HREF="http://oddjobs.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank> Odd Jobs</A>

by **SteveB** on Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:02 am

Yep, that's me. I work for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.Not only is "Road to Perdition" being turned into a movie, but it's starring Tom Hanks! The recent "Monkeybone," while fantasy, was a comics-based movie that didn't feature superheroes, and Clowes' "Ghost World" and Moore and Campbell's "From Hell" with Johnny Depp should both be out later this year (IMDB lists "Ghost World" as 2000, but Variety says it's coming out this summer).So at least some people are beginning to recognize that "comic book" doesn't mean "superhero" or even "shallow and insipid corporate productions with high
visceral and low intellectual appeal." It may take awhile, but I think we'll get there.(By the way, I detest the term "graphic novel," but my own preferred term is not likely to come into common use anytime soon. Since what we call "comic books" obviously aren't books, I propose that we refer to them as "comic magazines" and use "comic book" to refer to books with comics -- collections of cartoon strips, graphic novels, superhero reprints, if it's comics, and it's in a book, it's a comic book.I always used that as my working definition of "graphic novel" when I reviewed them for the Post a few years back (the current editor has no interest in graphic novel reviews), and out of over 50 books I reviewed, only 2 were about superheroes.

by **Tim Broderick** on Sat Mar 31, 2001 8:59 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by SteveB:
Yep, that's me. I work for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.(By the way, I detest the term "graphic novel," but my own preferred term is not likely to come into common use anytime soon. Since what we call "comic books" obviously aren't books, I propose that we refer to them as "comic magazines" and use "comic book" to refer to books with comics -- collections of cartoon strips, graphic novels, superhero reprints, if it's comics, and it's in a book, it's a comic book.I always used that as my working definition of "graphic novel" when I reviewed them for the Post a few years back (the current editor has no interest in graphic novel reviews), and out of over 50 books I reviewed, only 2 were about superheroes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Cool! I'm honored to have made it out of your tryouts section! I like the distinction you make between book and magazine, but I guess the problem I have mostly is with the word Comic. Graphic novel does seem a bit stilted too. I'm not sure what the answer is though. I don't think graphic really works. Sequential art seems a bit snobbish. "-------- Book." Maybe the problem is that we still feel we need to label this differently than regular books. I mean, everything else is labeled by what it's about, not the form it takes to tell the story. I like just calling it just a novel or a book.
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Tim Broderick
Someday, all jobs will be<A HREF="http://oddjobs.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank> Odd Jobs</A>

by **Tim Broderick** on Sun Apr 01, 2001 2:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by russ:
 BTW a lot of folks (including you Tim) often say cartoon, but to me that connotes animated cartoons, not comics. (Even though I know that dictionary-wise cartoon is a legitimate term for comics. The only context I can think of where it clearly in mind refers to comics is the phrase "political cartoon" or "editorial cartoon"... go figure.) Cartoon also connotes whimsical humor (instead of drama) to me, so it always feels jarring when you refer to Odd Jobs as a cartoon. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I realized reading your reply that I forgot to finish my thought! When I talk about comics, I think of "whimsical humor (instead of drama)." I see your point about the word "cartoon" as well. Probably the best thing to do is just let other people figure out what to call it <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
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Tim Broderick
Someday, all jobs will be<A HREF="http://oddjobs.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank> Odd Jobs</A>

by **Russ** on Sun Apr 01, 2001 10:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tim Broderick:
I like the distinction you make between book and magazine, but I guess the problem I have mostly is with the word Comic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds like internalized comicphobia to me. Go reread Scott McCloud's 2 books about comics and see if that doesn't make you feel more pride in Comics and their potential. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I like the distinction you make between book and magazine, but I guess the problem I have mostly is with the word Comic. Graphic novel does seem a bit stilted too. I'm not sure what the answer is though. I don't think graphic really works. Sequential art seems a bit snobbish.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Although I agree there's a physical distinction between a magazine and a book, I'm not sure that difference seems deeply significant from an artistic viewpoint; it seems more of a purely marketing issue to me.Graphic novel and sequential art do indeed seem to sound a little offputtingly pretentious, although I'll use "graphic novel" every now and then. I usually just say comics.BTW a lot of folks (including you Tim) often say cartoon, but to me that connotes animated cartoons, not comics. (Even though I know that dictionary-wise cartoon is a legitimate term for comics. The only context I can think of where it clearly in mind refers to comics is the phrase "political cartoon" or "editorial cartoon"... go figure.) Cartoon also connotes whimsical humor (instead of drama) to me, so it always feels jarring when you refer to Odd Jobs as a cartoon. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">------------------
russ
<A HREF="http://www.kofightclub.com" TARGET=_blank>Ko Fight Club</A>
<A HREF="http://comicollage.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Comicollage</A>

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