Random thought for the day

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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby TheSuburbanLetdown on Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:01 am

PortableNuke wrote:Name the top ten Jack Black roles with an explanation of why. Go!

Heh, I dunno. He's a talented guy, but I feel like people cast him just because he's Jack Black.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Pravus on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:42 pm

I want to see WALL-E for some reason...right after I see Burn After Reading. Anyone see that?
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Paul Escobar on Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:20 pm

TheSuburbanLetdown wrote:
Paul Escobar wrote:
TheSuburbanLetdown wrote:Despite the recent trend in American animation of having films that target adults [...]

I'm blanking out here - which films would that be?

I guess it's up for debate, but The Incredibles is pretty adult-oriented, especially with themes of a mid-life crisis applied to super heros, plus the whole scene with the head of InsuraCare. That movie worked well for kids, but it felt more adult to me. The Shrek movies had a lot of adult humor in them as well with jokes that would go over the heads of most kids. Kung Fu Panda felt like a kids movie to me much of the time.

Ah OK, I get what you mean now. We just have different interpretations of "adult" - "Incredibles" and "Shrek" I'd call, I dunno, family films or all-ages films. They target both kids and adults; there's different levels in them, much like most Disney animated films - some of those deal with adult themes too ("Pinocchio" is pure David Lynch in scenes!), but always presented in a manner that's enjoyable to almost all ages. Adult animation, to me that's stuff that doesn't appeal to kids at all, like "Aachi & Ssipak" or "Paprika".

Edit: your new avatar makes me smile a happy smile.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby TheSuburbanLetdown on Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:35 pm

Yeah, that's the jist of what I was trying to say — you just said it better. I like how Miyazaki films work really well for both kids and adults (though Princess Mononoke has a lot of decapitations in it). I've not seen Paprika yet. I hear it really messes with your head.

Kung Fu panda works for both kids and adults, but it definitely leans way more to the kid side. The villain had the potential for more complexity, but I recall from the commentary that they purposely didn't want the viewer to be too sympathetic to him. I sat there thinking, "Damn, that actually woulda been kinda cool." But again, well worth watching, especially for anyone that draws or appreciates art.

Thanks, my avatar amuses me too. It's totally copping a snoopy vibe.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Paul Escobar on Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:11 pm

Yeah, Miyazaki's films are awesome. I particularly like how they completely ignore the traditional (Western) way of setting up and telling a story and just do their own thing. If this is a Japanese thing or just a Miyazaki thing, I don't know.

I think "Nausicaa" would either scare or bore kids, but it's one of my favourites of his.

TheSuburbanLetdown wrote:Kung Fu panda works for both kids and adults, but it definitely leans way more to the kid side. The villain had the potential for more complexity, but I recall from the commentary that they purposely didn't want the viewer to be too sympathetic to him.

Huh, that's a bit odd. Normally, it's said that having a sympathetic bad guy is important in that type of story.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Hungrywolf on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:05 pm

Paul Escobar wrote:Yeah, Miyazaki's films are awesome. I particularly like how they completely ignore the traditional (Western) way of setting up and telling a story and just do their own thing. If this is a Japanese thing or just a Miyazaki thing, I don't know.

I think "Nausicaa" would either scare or bore kids, but it's one of my favourites of his.


Personally I think "Castle in the Sky" has one of the best opening sequences of an animated film ever.

And to answer your question Paul, it's a little of both. Because well, he is Japanese. The Walt Disney of Japan they call him. More accurately I think, he does something so absolutely wonderful, that it transcends language and cultural barriers. The animation doesn't have a complete Anime like style, it's more inspired by Western animation, Walt Disney etc. Different yes, but palatable to all audiences. Like ice cream, and who doesn't like ice cream!

Paul Escobar wrote:
Peppermint wrote:Kung Fu panda works for both kids and adults, but it definitely leans way more to the kid side. The villain had the potential for more complexity, but I recall from the commentary that they purposely didn't want the viewer to be too sympathetic to him.

Huh, that's a bit odd. Normally, it's said that having a sympathetic bad guy is important in that type of story.


Yeah that goes back to the whole Western way of telling a story.

Peppermint wrote:I've not seen Paprika yet. I hear it really messes with your head.


I'm sure it in no way measures up the mind-fuck that is the movie, "End of Evangelion." I will probably never see that movie ever again, and I'm glad I never will.

Peppermint wrote:
PortableNuke wrote:Name the top ten Jack Black roles with an explanation of why. Go!

Heh, I dunno. He's a talented guy, but I feel like people cast him just because he's Jack Black.


I find nothing wrong with that statement at all. :D
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Paul Escobar on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:36 pm

Hungrywolf wrote:The Walt Disney of Japan they call him.

I thought that epithet belonged to Osamu Tezuka. (That, and several others, the most impressive being manga no kamisama - the god of comics. But I digress.)

Hungrywolf wrote:More accurately I think, he does something so absolutely wonderful, that it transcends language and cultural barriers.

Very true. It's probably pointless to try and figure out if something is typically Japanese or whatever. One of my favourite film directors is Akira Kurosawa - having not seen a lot of other Japanese films, I used to think that his films were very Japanese, since they weren't like Western movies. And then, reading up, I found out that the Japanese regard Kurosawa as a very "Western" filmmaker. Oh well. Seems his films are just very much his.

Hungrywolf wrote:
Paul Escobar wrote:Normally, it's said that having a sympathetic bad guy is important in that type of story.

Yeah that goes back to the whole Western way of telling a story.

Well, "Kung Fu Panda" is an American film! And generally, that "good bad guy" thing tends to work very well, to the point where that character becomes the one who carries the movie, rather than the hero.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Hungrywolf on Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:59 pm

Paul Escobar wrote:
Hungrywolf wrote:The Walt Disney of Japan they call him.

I thought that epithet belonged to Osamu Tezuka. (That, and several others, the most impressive being manga no kamisama - the god of comics. But I digress.)


I guess it depends on who you ask mostly. But with the high success of both men, you could certain give both the honor of being called "The Walt Disney of Japan." You certainly wouldn't be wrong with either.

Paul Escobar wrote:
Hungrywolf wrote:
Paul Escobar wrote:Normally, it's said that having a sympathetic bad guy is important in that type of story.

Yeah that goes back to the whole Western way of telling a story.

Well, "Kung Fu Panda" is an American film! And generally, that "good bad guy" thing tends to work very well, to the point where that character becomes the one who carries the movie, rather than the hero.


Right, it is an American film, misunderstood your point.

I guess when you advertise a certain film to have a certain "actor" voicing the main role, I doubt as a film studio you'd want the "good bad guy" to carry the movie instead of the advertised role. Though I haven't seen the movie to know for sure.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Pravus on Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:48 pm

I need to see one of his movies...
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Hungrywolf on Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:36 pm

"Spirited Away." Seeing as it's probably the easiest of his films to find. That or "Howl's Moving Castle," that's pretty easy to find too.

I remember Tuner Classic Movies had a month of his movies showcased by John Lasseter of Pixar. Who he himself is an avid fan of Hayao Miyazaki work. They showed all of Mr. Miyazaki's work,everything from "My Neighbor Totoro" to "Porco Rosso," in both English dub and Japanese audio. It was pretty great.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby PortableNuke on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:03 am

Hey Hungry, is your location a nod to San Fernando being the Porn Capital of the World?
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby ComradeK on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:56 pm

Sorta on-topic. Watch the movie "The Plague Dogs." Animated, but not for kids. Anyway, as for my personal opinion on the recent trend in animation, I feel as though most of the movies are moving too far away from what used to make them epic, and closer to what's profitable. Some manage to keep that feeling, Miyazaki films for example, or Pixar, but a lot of recent stuff just isn't memorable or classic. Kid's probably won't remember Shrek the way they'll remember the Secret of NIMH.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Hungrywolf on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:29 pm

PortableNuke wrote:Hey Hungry, is your location a nod to San Fernando being the Porn Capital of the World?


I did not know San Fernando was the Porn Capital of the World... interesting.

But no, it's from a certain film sequel which some critics say was no "Groundhog Day," but I loved it.

ComradeK wrote:Sorta on-topic. Watch the movie "The Plague Dogs." Animated, but not for kids. Anyway, as for my personal opinion on the recent trend in animation, I feel as though most of the movies are moving too far away from what used to make them epic, and closer to what's profitable. Some manage to keep that feeling, Miyazaki films for example, or Pixar, but a lot of recent stuff just isn't memorable or classic. Kid's probably won't remember Shrek the way they'll remember the Secret of NIMH.


I sorta want to check out "Watership Down." I've heard some interesting things. I'll try looking that one up as well. "The Plague Dogs."

And I feel the same way of television. If you watch some cable channels you'll agree that the landscape is filled with channels just trying to push out as much advertisement dollars as possible.

And you're right about Miyazki and Pixar films keeping that certain feeling. I do wonder though if anyone is really going to remember "Bolt" after a year or so. You know I really would like to see independent Pixar productions, away from the Disney brand. I'm sure they could come up with some awesome ideas.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Paul Escobar on Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:31 pm

Hungrywolf wrote:I sorta want to check out "Watership Down." I've heard some interesting things. I'll try looking that one up as well. "The Plague Dogs."

Both films are worth watching. But read the novels also. Much better.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby PortableNuke on Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:39 am

ComradeK wrote: Kid's probably won't remember Shrek the way they'll remember the Secret of NIMH.


It think it's a little hard to compare the two. Light moralistic comedy versus dark sci-fi. 1982 versus 2001. The Incredibles versus Shrek might be a better comparison point.

I haven't seen anything that could compare to NIMH recently. It was scary as hell at the time, and it's easier to remember the stuff that scares you. Brad Bird's work is pretty good, but it still doesn't approach the darkness that Secret of NIMH had.

I do agree with your basic point: animation has gotten softer. I would like to see much more hardcore, darker fare. Batman the Animated Series and the movie from that are good examples. The X-Man animated series was good too, but it didn't push as many boundaries.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Redcrow on Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:08 am

PortableNuke wrote:I do agree with your basic point: animation has gotten softer. I would like to see much more hardcore, darker fare. Batman the Animated Series and the movie from that are good examples. The X-Man animated series was good too, but it didn't push as many boundaries.


I don't think American Animation will ever be edgy, generally speaking. Batman the Animated Series certainly pushed the envelope a bit, but it was produced for broadcast television.

For your Darkness Hit, I recommend Tekkonkinkreet. It's about two streetkids living in what seems to my Western eyes to be a parallel-universe Tokyo of the 1960's.

The director is an American expatriate, if you can believe that.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Pravus on Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:12 pm

I am Back!!!...Oh, I never told you guys, I was in an Area All-State Concert. Would you like to hear some of the songs?
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Hungrywolf on Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:17 pm

Redcrow wrote:
PortableNuke wrote:I do agree with your basic point: animation has gotten softer. I would like to see much more hardcore, darker fare. Batman the Animated Series and the movie from that are good examples. The X-Man animated series was good too, but it didn't push as many boundaries.


I don't think American Animation will ever be edgy, generally speaking. Batman the Animated Series certainly pushed the envelope a bit, but it was produced for broadcast television.

For your Darkness Hit, I recommend Tekkonkinekreet. It's about two streetkids living in what seems to my Western eyes to be a parallel-universe Tokyo of the 1960's.

The director is an American expatriate, if you can believe that.


As the same way Anime in general will probably never be fully excepted here in the States.

And I've heard of "Tekkonkinekreet." Micheal Arias is the director's name. He was also a sequence director for the "The Animatrix." I haven't seen it yet, but am very familiar with the band who does the ending song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5XWixJDfQM

Really a film you guys should really check out as well is "The Girl Who Leapt Time." It's by Studio Madhouse. It's not really dark at all, but it's still a really well done film. That film or "5 Centimeters Per Second."
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby ShannC on Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:00 am

The "Walt Disney of Japan" thing only holds up as far as high-budget animated + family/children films + huge distribution.
Apart from that, I don't think Disney movies are comparable to Studio Ghibli movies.

The Ghibli films are extremely straight and they always deal with pure emotions. There are no song numbers, extended action scenes of uninterrupted screaming, and there are no ironic gags/flirt with the audience type of things either. They've been extremely serious with the subject matter of every film, with some exceptions like Pom Poko.

You can compare, but if you call Ghibli a Disney you sort of undermine everything that Ghibli has that Disney hasn't.

The most diplomatic thing to say is that they can't be compared, but personally, I feel there's no chance in hell that Disney could ever pull off a Totoro or Spirited away. They don't possess either the skill or the guts to do it. Maybe it had been possible in the 60's, but not now. No way.
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Re: Random thought for the day

Postby Hungrywolf on Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:17 pm

ShannC wrote:The "Walt Disney of Japan" thing only holds up as far as high-budget animated + family/children films + huge distribution.


Right. There's really nothing more than that to the comparison.

EDIT: Also I learned today that the movie "Bolt" is not by Pixar, but made by Disney Animation Studios separately.

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