Freedom Of Religion?

Realityendshere · Post by **Realityendshere** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:18 pm

Sooner or later we will become a race of creatures that communicate with technology, never reproduce and utilize forums!!!!!!

Kilre · Post by **Kilre** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:19 pm

nah, it'll never happen

Terotrous · Post by **Terotrous** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:21 pm

KittyKatBlack wrote:
Kilre wrote:stupid people also walk in front of cars
Yes, and then they get hit, file a lawsuit, and become rich.

That does sound like a pretty good racket.

Maybe they're not as stupid as we think?

Realityendshere · Post by **Realityendshere** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:22 pm

I was worried for a second... of course... the moment someone starts creating some kind of visual medium online, a sequential order of images forming a single concept, society would be doomed...

Dr Legostar · Post by **Dr Legostar** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:40 pm

KittyKatBlack wrote:
Kilre wrote:stupid people also walk in front of cars
Yes, and then they get hit, file a lawsuit, and become rich.

actually on my campus one guy got hit by a car, killed by the second, and well... the third one didn't help.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:03 pm

EvilChihuahua wrote:
Kilre wrote:whatever happened to freedom of religion? has it become taboo to be non-christian?
I would disagree. As a Christian I feel it is more taboo to be Christian.
When Narnia came out, Phillip Pullman, a prominent atheistic writer, said that he would rather give his kids hallucinogens than let them see it.
Movies everywhere constantly mock Jesus, ( see a lot of monty pythn sketches, you'll know what I mean) and the media eats them up. and yet, every time a movie comes out that tries to accurately depict the Christian faith, ( like the passion, or narnia ) there's a bunch of complaining.
And let's not even get into the Da Vinci Code.
I mean, Christians have to be really thick skinned to survive in the public eye.
I think someone earlier apologised on behalf of christians. THis I refuse to do. Anyone who can turn a message of love and acceptance, and turn it into a reason to persecute is as christian as , who, by the way, pretended to be christian.
But he is NOT and if you think that christians are a bunch of racists, keep in mind that JESUS WAS A JEW!
PS-I used the word "Hallucinogens" because the forum blocked out the word starting with "D"

The big Christian lie these days is that there are only seventy-eight of them left in the entire country and are this close to being executed for so much as making the sign of the cross. The reality is that America is a very Christian nation and is overwhelmingly controlled by Christians.

There are a lot of atheists and secular humanists who are a buncha knuckleheads. And they're loud. But look at this resolution. Has any state EVER tried to pass a resolution that says there is no god? That Buddhists have special protection over other people? Some stuffy intellectuals have a problem with the work of CS Lewis and you're bent out of shape? But this you have no problem with?

The point of this conversation is that one's spiritual life is one's own concern. Christianity is a valid way of life, and it's filled many lives with meaning and hope. But it's also been in the business of judging humanity for centuries now, and it's sitting at the top in our culture. It's only natural that people judge back. When Christianity stops being mocked, you should start worrying.

Guildmaster Van · Post by **Guildmaster Van** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:07 pm

Christianity is going into a steady decline; being replaced by reduxes of older religions. People are getting in touch with their own spirituality and believing in what they want to believe rather than believing in what they're told to.

Eventually, within the next century, Christianity will no longer be a powerful majority. While I am sure it will remain a majority among world religions, I am doubtful it will hold the same power over the West that it once had.

People are, for better or for worse, embracing their own methods of prayer and communication with the divine. Some of these people are just looking for something to latch on to, some are just doing it out of spite, and the majority earnestly believe in what they're expressing.

Personally I don't care what people believe in, so long as they aren't believing in it in my face. I do have a problem with organized religion and public prayer, however.

In particular, organized religion is something I abhor for its insistance on telling people what to do. All organized religions, in my opinion, are to varying degrees brainwashing cults. Some more than others. Some are self-destructive like the Heaven's Gate, while some are purely destructive like Islamic extremism. Some are annoying like Mormons (Nothing against y'all; I had a Mormon friend. He was just annoying when he talked about his religion because he was insistant he had the right answers and everything I said was wrong), while others are just plain jackasses like the Bible Belt which loves spreading rumors and sadistic lies about those they can make devils out of.

As for public prayer my beef isn't with the public nature of it, but rather the prayer itself. Be it Wiccans to Christians to honest-to-god Satanists (No pun intended), I think anyone who thinks chanting in arcane tongue and waving their arms around will make their god hear them better is an idiot, or someone who doubts in the power of their faith.

As for me; I don't practice religion anymore. I respect all religion despite their goods and bads, but God and I had a falling out a while ago when I couldn't take any more crap from His followers. I couldn't take standing face to face with someone who was telling me they and only they had the answer to all the universe's riddles anymore.

The point of religion is for the human mind to try to grasp what lies beyond this world. Religion is the creation of men trying to find their place in universe; men grasping at the thoughts of immortality. Still it seems everyone is insistant that they are right and that if follow anyone else you're sealing your doom.

I don't care - I believe there's something more to this world beyond life, and that my decision to abstain from a practice that causes war and genocide will not damn me in this world or the next.

Spriteville, USA · Post by **Spriteville, USA** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:31 pm

I basically agree with Van on every point that isn't directly related to personal experience.

And even then that's just cause I haven't been living his life next to him.

(or maybe I have... you know that wierd lump in your arm? THAT WAS ME!!!!)

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:04 am

The Van wrote:Christianity is going into a steady decline; being replaced by reduxes of older religions. People are getting in touch with their own spirituality and believing in what they want to believe rather than believing in what they're told to.

Not sure this is true. Everything I've read suggests Christianity is still steadily growing. Not nearly as rapidly as Islam, but it's in no danger of decline. In Europe, maybe in Canada, yeah, but not in the Americas or Asia or Africa.

It's hold on Western culture definitely is slipping, though.

Interestingly, even Jesus said not to make a spectacle of your reverence.

Blackaby · Post by **Blackaby** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:55 am

Christianity is NOT going into a steady decline.

Guildmaster Van · Post by **Guildmaster Van** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:16 am

yeahduff wrote:Not sure this is true. Everything I've read suggests Christianity is still steadily growing. Not nearly as rapidly as Islam, but it's in no danger of decline. In Europe, maybe in Canada, yeah, but not in the Americas or Asia or Africa.

It's hold on Western culture definitely is slipping, though.

Isn't that a contradiction of terms to say it is growing yet slipping?

I have yet to see a sign that it is growing rather than shrinking. What's your proof?

My proof that it is shrinking:
- Less church attendence globally
- Growth in numbers of Neo-Pagan religions
- Growth in numbers of Athiests and Agnostics
- Total loss of power of the Roman Catholic Church over the last 50 years in Quebec *

As far as I am aware of spontaneous generation doesn't exist, so hypotheticly as one religion waxes another must wane. As more and more people are born in the West there is a less likelihood that they will be Christian or even baptized. You can't really argue with this fact. That said, since more people are born non-Christian than Christian, it is easy to see that just because their actual numbers are not necessarily decreasing that their percentage amongst the total of people in the West is falling.

You mustn't forget that to cause a decline in something you don't need to actually make it fall in numbers, but only outpopulate it. By far you must agree that this is happening.

That, and Christians as a whole are getting dumber and louder over time, so it is easy to mistake their loudness for large numbers.

* Quebec went from being run by the church, who was backing the political leader in the 50s, to being thrown into a peaceful social revolution in the sixties where power was taken away from the church. In highschool my class was asked if we believed in god - only four people out of twenty-two said yes. In other words the majority of my generation doesn't believe in god, which is a 180 degree turn from my father's generation where even the schools were run by the church. If the french people, by far more fervent in their religious beliefs than anything America musters, can abandon their religion then I see it a sign that the time of Christianity is nigh.

Well, that, and the Catholic church has a crisis in Canada and, for that matter, America, because no one wants to be priests or nuns anymore.

ShineDog · Post by **ShineDog** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:32 am

i think it makes sense

even if the numbers are falling (i thought they were growing in the US, but im probably wrong) its fairly clear that there are still a large amount of christians with a lot of clout, and a lot of them are in office (just LOOK at any politician in america with any aspirations on improving there position, it all seems designed to appeal to the christian types, with heavy handed morality on display.) - theres been a lot of powerplay political moves with christian themes lately.

Blackaby · Post by **Blackaby** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:48 am

The lowering in church attendence does not necessarily mean a drop in Christianity. People don't have to go to church to believe in a Christian god, or to identify as Christians.

Christianity is diminishing in many European countries - although not necessarily all of them. Canada and England, I think, are those that have shown the greatest drop in Christianity.

As yeahduff said, Christianity is growing at an incredible rate in Africa, South America and Asia. China is now the country with the most amount of Christians in the entire world. India, Korea and Thailand are also showing incredible 'rates of conversion'.

There is also a very strong youth movement at the moment - primarily seen in countries like Australia and America - that is bringing countless young people into the churches. (That said, the Pentecostal movement isn't growing as dramatically as it once was.)

Blackaby · Post by **Blackaby** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:52 am

Interestingly many articles I've read on the expansion of Christianity have likened the movement to a form of Darwinian evolution - as it passes through new countries, it takes on different forms, and is reinterpreted to confirm, incorporate or validate the beliefs and social systems of the new Christians. The easiest example of this is voodooism in the West Indies and other places...

But I'm going off on a tangent.

CorpAmis · Post by **CorpAmis** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:01 am

blackaby wrote: India, Korea and Thailand are also showing incredible 'rates of conversion'.

This is probably true....But I really want to make it a point here that the reasons why they are converting are just very annoying...
I have friends who have been converted also and I just wanna see this....

One thing the Christians are doing is conducting these meetings where a blind man gets sight or that a cripple can walk...Illiterate and superstitious people tend to get attracted to that.....Thats reason 1
Reason 2 being these converted people believe that only Christianity can save them from going to hell, that sins can be washed away....(Hinduism has some tough equations with sin and hell)

Reason3 Probably the worst is that in India Christians come under minority and minorities has reservations in India...
Suppose there are 250 Parliament members, a certain percentage of themshould be the minorities....the same goes with seats in universities,Jobs everything.........
So being a Christian gives them advantages....

The last but another sick reason being:
Christians get funds from the west for various activities which these people use for personal purposes....I can see that the maximum people who sport a sports car are either having big businesses or they are converted christians....

And to propogate the religion, in here they tend to preach "Other religions suck...Come to us....Your religion says "No meat and wine"....Ours dont"

I have deep respect for Christianity but these ppl are just not letting me keep my feelings...
This is definitely the situation in India...

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:45 am

In Van's defense, he did say Christianity was in decline and wouldn't be the powerhouse it now is in the West - the places where christianity is growing aren't really "The West".

Christians shouldn't feel persecuted - they aren't being persecuted. Instead what is happening is that the default religion is being moved to a position where it is no greater nor less than the other religions. That will feel like persecution to some Christians, who are used to being able to be as free as they like with their religion and have never felt the sense of unease the rest of us have to feel in public when we display our religion.

Unease? Yeah, unease. I've never had a muslim tell me I was going to burn, should die, or should only quietly practice, my religion. I've had Christians tell me all three. And not just once. Frequently. Often not even in private.

This isn't to say that Christians aren't good people - I count many amongst my good friends. But the religion as a whole should be ashamed of the reputation that it has outside of the Christian community.

Czar · Post by **Czar** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:53 am

legostargalactica wrote:
KittyKatBlack wrote:
Kilre wrote:stupid people also walk in front of cars
Yes, and then they get hit, file a lawsuit, and become rich.
actually on my campus one guy got hit by a car, killed by the second, and well... the third one didn't help.

Some guys are just unlucky... And don't forget, some stupid people drive cars.

Dr Legostar · Post by **Dr Legostar** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:10 am

Czar wrote:
legostargalactica wrote:
KittyKatBlack wrote: Yes, and then they get hit, file a lawsuit, and become rich.
actually on my campus one guy got hit by a car, killed by the second, and well... the third one didn't help.
Some guys are just unlucky... And don't forget, some stupid people drive cars.

there's unlucky, and then there are times you really think "yeah.. god meant to smite him..."

Guildmaster Van · Post by **Guildmaster Van** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:58 am

blackaby wrote:The lowering in church attendence does not necessarily mean a drop in Christianity. People don't have to go to church to believe in a Christian god, or to identify as Christians.

That may be true, but statisticly speaking only adherents are counted.

While people may explore their own spirituality with a flavor of Christ in it they aren't counted among the population of Christians because statistics only count adherents to particular groups and denominations rather than individuals. It doesn't sound fair, but that's how the system works.

Blackaby · Post by **Blackaby** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:10 am

The Van wrote:
blackaby wrote:The lowering in church attendence does not necessarily mean a drop in Christianity. People don't have to go to church to believe in a Christian god, or to identify as Christians.
That may be true, but statisticly speaking only adherents are counted.

While people may explore their own spirituality with a flavor of Christ in it they aren't counted among the population of Christians because statistics only count adherents to particular groups and denominations rather than individuals. It doesn't sound fair, but that's how the system works.

Well, I don't know - I'm not sure what you mean by statisticly.

As I said, I'd personally define Christians as people who are Christians, not people who happen to go to Church. And from what I've found, statistical reports - especially censuses - actually do count those who are not going to organisations, but consider themselves Christians. If you search even on the internet, I'm sure you'll find statistics that examine both those of 'church goers' and those who identify as 'Christians'. Even in this country, where 97% of the population identify as 'Christian' - either Protestant or Catholic - only around 50-60% regularly attend church.

You can say there's a decline in Christianity if you're playing by those definitions, but I wouldn't call it that - it's more of an evolution of the religion, from conservative control to a more liberal and personal form of spirituality.