Aussie cartoonist catches bike thief!!

MixedMyth · Post by **MixedMyth** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:42 am

Jim North wrote:The whole matter could likely be easily settled if the groups in question would just let the scientists do their tests and figure out who the remains actually belong to,

Again, scientifically the remains are not terribly related to the Umatilla. The problem with using science to determine human relationships is that people develope those relationship often not on genetics or physicality, but according to their belief system and perceptions of family. So proving scientifically that the remains are not related to the Umitilla more than any other group would do no good. Again, especially since legally oral tradition can stand as evidence.

It is all very silly, though, in that it is almost a case example of a way NOT to do things. The bickering, the lack of communication. It's a nightmare.

Not taking science as truth is an alien concept for many of us. Hell, I follow it. I'm not about to walk off a cliff because I think gravity is a lie. But we have to realize that in many ways, the fact that we put so much trust in science is in many ways part of our culture. Science is based on evidence and methodology, true. And I am NOT arguing that it's invalid...I'm just saying that it is not the mode of thought that other cultures necessarily accept.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:44 pm

I've never seen so many long posts by MM.

MixedMyth · Post by **MixedMyth** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:54 pm

mcDuffies wrote:I've never seen so many long posts by MM.

Ha ha! Well, it started to edge on my area of study.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:35 am

I might be the only one who've never shown his area of study that way. 'Cause I seem to rant about everything else.

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:50 am

MixedMyth wrote:The problem with using science to determine human relationships is that people develope those relationship often not on genetics or physicality, but according to their belief system and perceptions of family.

The problem still stands in this case, however, since either there isn't any proof that this person has any kind of cultural ties to the Umatilla while s/he was alive or they aren't allowing any such proof on the body to be studied closely enough. For all the Umatilla might know, this person was part of a tribe that was at constant war with their own and their ancestors would find their attempts to claim ties to him/her to be reprehensible, perhaps even blasphemous.

Just because their cutural oral traditions are protected under law and should be respected regardless doesn't make them truth. Science being or not being a part of one's culture shouldn't enter into it as much because regardless of the amount of involvement of scientific understanding, it doesn't change the objective reality of the situation.

MixedMyth · Post by **MixedMyth** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:01 am

Yeah...personally I side with science on this one...though I'm leery to since the scientist arguing the case really is kind of an ass. When you think about treatment of the remains, though, the fact is that neither being studied by scientists or being reburied by the Umatilla fit into the cultural practices of the guy who's body it is. It's like two outside cultures arguing over what happens to the remains of a third culture. Weird, huh? I will say this, though. The Umatilla have been getting unfair press representation. Oh man, some of the documentaries on the subject are so terribly one sided and derogatory. Ultimately, I think a compromise like the other case would have been best.