Who is the Half-Blood Prince...?

[geoduck] · Post by **[geoduck]** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:26 pm

Kirb wrote: Damn it, Dumbledore was my favorite character. I'm scarred for life.

In terms of the series' plot mechanics, it had to happen sooner or later; Harry has to fight the Last Battle alone. As I obliquely noted before, I was just disappointed as to how Rowling (appearantly) went about it.

Turi · Post by **Turi** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:31 pm

[geoduck] wrote:
Kirb wrote: Damn it, Dumbledore was my favorite character. I'm scarred for life.
In terms of the series' plot mechanics, it had to happen sooner or later; Harry has to fight the Last Battle alone. As I obliquely noted before, I was just disappointed as to how Rowling (appearantly) went about it.

I think it was great that she let it be "in vain." One of the points in the books is that death is a nasty thing. A meaningless death stresses this point much more that a heroic one.

ManyWorlds · Post by **ManyWorlds** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:14 pm

The deaths of Dumbledore and Sirius have been representative of loss-of-innocence and coming-of-age type thing. As Harry comes closer to adulthood (and the point where he has to face Voldemort) he looses those who protect and shelter him. If Rowling had been going for pure-shock value, she would have killed Ron or Hermione or Hagrid. Dumbledore's death, however, has an actual literary purpose.

It still sucks, though...

Small speculation that I don't think has been posted here: Harry might be one of Voldemort's Horcruxes. Furthermore, Voldemort might be a Horcrux for Harry...

Turi · Post by **Turi** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:29 pm

On the horcrux:

I do not think either is horcrux for the other: Harry clearly has his entire soul, so no such thing for him, and the prophecy states that "neither can live while the other survives." That would be the opposite if Harry was a Horcrux: Then Volde couldn't die as long as Harry survied.

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:03 pm

ManyWorlds wrote:Small speculation that I don't think has been posted here: Harry might be one of Voldemort's Horcruxes.

Ahem. One page previous . . .

Jim North wrote:Betcha Harry's one of the Horcruxes. Like it isn't blindingly obvious.

TURI wrote:I do not think either is horcrux for the other: Harry clearly has his entire soul, so no such thing for him,

They talk about living beings (particularly Nagini the snake) serving as a horcrux, and it's never actually said that the horcrux can't already have a full soul of its own. So it is possible.

and the prophecy states that "neither can live while the other survives." That would be the opposite if Harry was a Horcrux: Then Volde couldn't die as long as Harry survied.

It's intimated heavily in HPB that prophecies are more guidelines than actual hard rules, neh?

But if you want to get really nitpicky about it, one could make the arguments that just who "the other" is isn't really specified, so it could be someone other than Harry and Voldemort (Neville?) . . . and therefore if both Harry and Voldemort die (in that order, natch), then the prophecy would be fulfilled. "Neither can live".

Maybe that's stetching it a little. But it wouldn't be the first time Rowling has stretched things a little so they fit right.

Dreams · Post by **Dreams** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:59 pm

on dumbledore's and sirius's deaths:

either character loves harry more than anyone else, and so would never stand idly by as harry faces voldemort. when living they would always stand in front of him, so they must be removed before harry is exposed.

on horcruxes:

how on earth would someone stop being a horcrux other than death, if harry was one? an interesting theory however... hadn't thought of that one!

Birdie · Post by **Birdie** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:07 pm

if I have to read one more piece of microsized text I swear I'll pistolwhip the shit out of someone.

Rowling has had this knack of connecting people with a story about a boy and his world. It's not the best story, it's not the best writing, but she's done something with literature that hasn't been done before and in this day and age she should have some sort of respect, even if her writing is mediocre. This series has been one of my favorite things to ever read...EVER. I can't believe there is this much angst towards someone who has been encouraging more people to READ. How awful is that?

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:22 pm

Dreams wrote:how on earth would someone stop being a horcrux other than death, if harry was one?

Many people think that Harry's going to die in the last book anyway . . . this would give him the whole sacrifice for the world thing, cementing him in the annals of good wizardry or something. Still, it would be interesting if someone found a way to extract the soul-piece without actually harming Harry.

supernerdcore wrote:if I have to read one more piece of microsized text I swear I'll pistolwhip the shit out of someone.

Ron gets eaten by Elvis impersonators!

(EDIT: Bolded for TRUTH, italicized for JUSTICE)

MariaAndMichelle · Post by **MariaAndMichelle** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:30 pm

Nicked · Post by **Nicked** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:40 am

Now it's time for news about the next book. I hear it takes on a darker theme.

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:10 am

supernerdcore wrote:if I have to read one more piece of microsized text I swear I'll pistolwhip the shit out of someone.

Rowling has had this knack of connecting people with a story about a boy and his world. It's not the best story, it's not the best writing, but she's done something with literature that hasn't been done before and in this day and age she should have some sort of respect, even if her writing is mediocre. This series has been one of my favorite things to ever read...EVER. I can't believe there is this much angst towards someone who has been encouraging more people to READ. How awful is that?

Um...huh?

No. She is not unique. Connecting a reader to an imaginary character and his imaginary world is writing 101. If a writer cannot do this, they have no business being published.

Her story is not unique. Off the top of my head I can name three authors who took the "hero discovers he has powers and is the magical chosen one of prophesy" plot. David Eddings (the Belgariad/Mallorean), Terry Goodkind (Sword of Truth series) and, god help us, Robert Jorden (Wheel of Time series) all started, and in some cases, finished, their series long before Harry Potter was a ghost in Rowling's inner eye. If you remove the prophesy part, then Terry Brooks (Shanara series) Mercedes Lackley (The Lark and the Wren) Anne McCaffrey (Pern series, Crystal Singer series, Powers That Be series), Susan Cooper (Dark is Rising series) and Catherine Asaro (Chimed Sphere/Misted Cliffs) have all done variations on the theme. Also long before Harry Potter appeared on the scene.

Connecting with children is not unique, either. C.S. Lewis's Cronicles of Narnia come to mind immedately. The first book I ever read was the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. It's an almost universal favorite, and the one thing I know I can mention and have most fantasy readers go "Yeah, loved those as a kid and now".

What Rowling is, is a talented imaginer and a so-so writer, who took a well worn plot, tweeked it for origionality, built the world around it, had the incredible luck to hit the sweet "right time, right place, right publisher" spot fledgling writers dream about, then wrote three good books, one ok book and two bad ones. She is famous. She is rich. She is not and should not be beyond reproach because people like her books.

CW

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:01 pm

christwriter wrote:the "hero discovers he has powers and is the magical chosen one of prophesy" plot.

Harry: "What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge spells?"

Dumbledore: "No, Harry. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready . . . you won't have to."

Sput · Post by **Sput** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:42 pm

it'll be liek the matrix. he'll be able to stop the spells IN THEIR TRACKS! zomz.

Dreams · Post by **Dreams** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:17 pm

christwriter wrote:
supernerdcore wrote:if I have to read one more piece of microsized text I swear I'll pistolwhip the shit out of someone.

Rowling has had this knack of connecting people with a story about a boy and his world. It's not the best story, it's not the best writing, but she's done something with literature that hasn't been done before and in this day and age she should have some sort of respect, even if her writing is mediocre. This series has been one of my favorite things to ever read...EVER. I can't believe there is this much angst towards someone who has been encouraging more people to READ. How awful is that?
Um...huh?

No. She is not unique. Connecting a reader to an imaginary character and his imaginary world is writing 101. If a writer cannot do this, they have no business being published.

i work at a bookstore... i haven't worked there for an extreme amount of time... almost a year, but long enough to have gotten a feel for the average customer...

i am asked frequently for books that are along the lines of harry potter, or told that someone loves harry potter, and its probably the most frequently referred to in preferences. i have been asked for something along the lines of robert jordan once. i have been asked when the next book is coming out, but for something similar, only once. the thing that harry potter has been doing that robert jordan, david eddings, and all those other people you mentioned aren't is getting *young* people to read. little kids who won't read anything but harry potter do ask for things like harry potter. kids who you know, if it weren't for harry potter, wouldn't be asking for books at all. and i get the opportunity to turn them onto chronicles of narnia or pendragon, or whatever i feel the kid might enjoy.

JKR may not be the first for the phenomena, but you cannot discount its effects. we stayed open for the midnight madness, and sold 200 copies of HBP that night, but over 600 books total at that party. that's getting people to read! and since that makes my job better, yay.

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:05 pm

True, but I credit that less to her ability and more to "right time, right place" syndrome.

In my albeit limited experiance, nobody who becomes a bestseller gets there by their skill. It's more like they get there by accident, the way some people start avalanches.

I haven't read kids's books in a LOOONG time. I think the only three authors I really read that would qualify as "kids books" were Bruce Corville, Susan Cooper, C.S. Lewis and maybe the BabySitter's club. Right about the time I started really reading and frequenting the bookstore, my mother gave me Terry Brooks's heratage of Shanara series and I kind of jumped from BBC straight into adult fiction.

I don't discount it's effects, either. In a way I thank god for it, because it keeps the industry I want to live off of alive and breaks it open for a new generation. I just don't like the way her writing has degraded.

CW

Birdie · Post by **Birdie** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:19 am

christwriter wrote:True, but I credit that less to her ability and more to "right time, right place" syndrome.

In my albeit limited experiance, nobody who becomes a bestseller gets there by their skill. It's more like they get there by accident, the way some people start avalanches.

Right place and right time for what? It's not like books are the new pink right now. We have one author here who has created an amazing demand for her books. Books in general do alright, but if you think reading Harry Potter is nothing more than a trend in literature than you are sadly mistaken.

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:16 am

MariaAndMichelle wrote:Harry wasn't interested in her at all, and then, all of a sudden, he was like, "Wow... ginny is teh hot. i sure wish she wld look @ me..."

If you ask me, I'll tell you this. Puberty = BOOBS.

All Clues in Order of the Phoenix point to R.A.B being Regallus Black, and the locket in question being the one they chucked away while cleaning up 12 Grimmauld place (the one that everyone present was "unable to open"). Unfortunately Kreacher or Mundungus have probably made off with it by now. However I remain convinced that these are elaborate red herrings.

Also I like how Snape is a double double double double agent, either pretending to work for Morty but really working for Dumbly or pretending to work for Dumbly but really working for Morty, or just a guy who got who got himself tangled up in a couple of promises but in the end looking out for himself and in the process hoodwinking the two greatest wizards who ever lived that he's their pawn and is really out to be the next Dark lord all together.
Kid's book ethics advise pointedly at the former, but she may decide to kick us all up the backsides and give us something all together unexpected.

As for all the snogging.. well they may be wizards but they

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:00 pm

Mr.Bob wrote:
MariaAndMichelle wrote:Harry wasn't interested in her at all, and then, all of a sudden, he was like, "Wow... ginny is teh hot. i sure wish she wld look @ me..."
If you ask me, I'll tell you this. Puberty = BOOBS.

Yeah, I don't get the "Why is Harry suddenly interested in Ginny????" confusion. There could hardly be anything less surprising than a guy suddenly realizing that his childhood friend is totally hot around the time she turns 15.

MariaAndMichelle · Post by **MariaAndMichelle** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:44 pm

Boys are dumb.

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:46 am

Hey, it's not like I'm too happy about it either!

I was always more of a Harry/Draco shipper.