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Imagine that a man dangles a piece of candy in front of you. ... As you grab the candy, a huge metal hook stabs through your hand and you?re ripped off the ground. You fight to get away, but it doesn't do any good... That would be an awful trick to play on someone, wouldn't it?
followed by
Learn more about the intelligence of fish.
Fish are pretty dumb. You'd think a subterranean creature like a worm snorkeling about underwater with a sharp bit of metal poking through them would look suspicious.
Along those lines, which irresponsible people would let spoiled idiot children walk around unattended and just go grabbing candy proffered to them by Abu Hamza?
I'm surprised rkolter hasn't pointed out that fish blood isn't red.
That's most likely because fish blood is indeed red. Fish use hemoglobin just like all vertibrates. Hemoglobin is an iron-rich protein in red blood cells that is bright red, and that is what colors our (and fish) blood.
It's red-tinted, but nowhere near as bright or opaque as human blood. I believe the fish depicted are trout, which have a orange-light red colored blood.
Toxic wrote:
I'm surprised rkolter hasn't pointed out that fish blood isn't red.
That's most likely because fish blood is indeed red. Fish use hemoglobin just like all vertibrates. Hemoglobin is an iron-rich protein in red blood cells that is bright red, and that is what colors our (and fish) blood.
It's red-tinted, but nowhere near as bright or opaque as human blood. I believe the fish depicted are trout, which have a orange-light red colored blood.
I'm sorry Toxic, I just can't take you seriously with that phallic avatar of yours.
Toxic wrote:
I'm surprised rkolter hasn't pointed out that fish blood isn't red.
That's most likely because fish blood is indeed red. Fish use hemoglobin just like all vertibrates. Hemoglobin is an iron-rich protein in red blood cells that is bright red, and that is what colors our (and fish) blood.
It's red-tinted, but nowhere near as bright or opaque as human blood. I believe the fish depicted are trout, which have a orange-light red colored blood.
The statement you wanted me to confirm was, "fish blood isn't red". That is an untrue statement and I cannot confirm it. Had you said, "Fish blood isn't nearly that bright or opaque." I would have agreed.
But orangeish-red, pale red, red-tinted... these are all variations on the theme, "Red". Fish blood is in fact red. The coloration comes from the same basic protein that colors human blood, as well as the blood of all vertibrates.
Crossfire: "Thank you! That explains it very nicely, and in a language that someone other than a physicist can understand..."
Denial is not falsification. You can't avoid a fact just because you don't like it.
"Data" is not the plural of "anecdote"
Read through this thread with notepad open.
The following was entered:
One.
I'd rather kill something quickly with a knife or a blunt object than let it suffocate.
If a fish suffers by our definition (which I believe it incapable of doing), it does so to a greater extent while out of the water and suffocating than when it gets to be close and personal with mr pointy or mr smashy. Besides, if I kill the fish quick, it won't flip, flop, hop away from me.
Two.
Animals have do have rights. The first right is to not be exposed to unnecessary suffering. Torture is right out.
That said, human rights and needs supercede animal rights any day.
The second right is to not be killed needlessly. If an animal is killed to be eaten, it is not needless. A predator killed to ease pressure on the prey population, that is not needless. An animal killed in the name of science is not needlessly killed. An animal killed crossing a roadway is just an accident, an injured animal killed is in accordance with the first right. No life should be intentionally ended for no good reason, human or otherwise.
Three
rkolter considers animals property and I'm fine with that (to each, their own). I consider animals an investment somewhere inbetween property and employees (closer to one or the other depending on the perspective).
You protect animals from torture or maltreatment the same way you'd protect property, but you also need to consider that animals can feel stressed (which is not always a good thing) and therefore need to be considered employees to a certain extent...
Or rather, animals are animals and they aren't employees or property. Treat them well, and they live well and produce good meat, etc.
Four
Anthropomorphizing (big word) of animals is stupid.
No animal is human, period. They haven't got human feelings, they haven't got human minds, they haven't got human concepts and they haven't got human souls.
They're not human.
Five
I've never (nor has most of the planets population) had to hunt, kill, skin, prepare, cook and eat my own meat. I'm not really interested in doing so unless I have to, but if I was given the oppurtunity to learn I wouldn't hesitate to do so (assuming I could fit it into my schedule). You never know when such skills come in handy.
Six:
Vegetarianism is a good idea in the long run. more information needs to be spread but not shock-propaganda, we need relevant information (depletion of animals versus human population growth, the energy waste of eating from the mid to high levels of the food chain etc etc).
Så länge skutan kan gå, så länge hjärtat kan slå, så länge solen den glittrar på böljorna blå...
First off, nothing has rights naturally. There is no such thing as "rights" in nature. Nothing has a right to anything, not to eat, not to live, not be be free of pain. You only get those things if you can earn them. That's why when ever I hear someone complaining about animal rights, "Animals have a right to be free" "Animals have a right to live." My fist reaction is "No. Animals have rights to jack shit. Do you think a wolf gives a crap about the "rights" of deer, or vice versa. Do you think that a wolf wouldn't kill you in a second if it were hungry, just because you respect it?" Do you think a meteor gives a rats ass about the "rights" of life on this planet? No. And if all life were to be wiped off this planet, who would care? No one, because no one would be left to care. (Accept maybe God, but that's a whole other descusion)
However, as humans, we have evolved to the point where we are capable of making the idea of rights (As Jex explained very nicely). And I think as humans, we have the the "right" to give ourselves (and animals) rights. Nature dose not guaranty me the right to free speech, the constitution and Americas big F#&kn military do. Any rights we (and animals) have are rights of Man, not of nature.
Having said all that, I am totally against animal cruelty and torture. Not because I believe the animals are entitled to live in peace, but because my Human morals tell me it is wrong, and evilution have given me the luxury of being able to live my life distinguishing between "right" and "wrong."
So, in summation:
To PETA: Shut the hell up assholes, animals have no rights accept the ones we give them!
To people against animal rights: Shut the hell up assholes, animals have the right to live without being tortured, because I give them that right!
PETA is out of their minds, and, on the large, hypocrites about everything they preach.
Animals (should) have rights insofar as to not be killed needlessly or messily.
People should eat what they want.
Vegitarians have stinky poop (as evidenced by the constant funk in the art building bathrooms).
rkolter wrote:The statement you wanted me to confirm was, "fish blood isn't red". That is an untrue statement and I cannot confirm it. Had you said, "Fish blood isn't nearly that bright or opaque." I would have agreed.
But orangeish-red, pale red, red-tinted... these are all variations on the theme, "Red". Fish blood is in fact red. The coloration comes from the same basic protein that colors human blood, as well as the blood of all vertibrates.
The deadpan tone with which you're arguing the colour of fish blood is amusing me very much.
So we all agree, then? PETA= bad, Vegetarians = bad, The Sixth Extinction = bad.
Faith is what credulity becomes when it finally achieves escape velocity from the constraints of terrestrial discourse- reasonableness, internal coherence, civility, and candor. Thus, the men who commited the atrocities of September 11 were neither cowards nor lunatics of any sort, but Men of Faith- perfect faith- and this, it must finally be acknowleged, is a terrible thing to be.
They should have gone for the extra point and given him monstrous teeth, too. And bloodshot eyes.
Faith is what credulity becomes when it finally achieves escape velocity from the constraints of terrestrial discourse- reasonableness, internal coherence, civility, and candor. Thus, the men who commited the atrocities of September 11 were neither cowards nor lunatics of any sort, but Men of Faith- perfect faith- and this, it must finally be acknowleged, is a terrible thing to be.
If I was relligious, I'd say "If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't make them so damn delicious"
Once I was served a vegetarian dish without a warning, and I went "Hey! There's no meat in mine, where's my food!?"
And I find it weird some of you claim not to like meat, I mean, the human taste is designed for meat to taste good, so it's an equivalent of not liking sugar or salt.
But I'm tolerant, so I allow people not to eat meat if they want. More left for me!
You are the Non. You must go now, and never return."
Faith is what credulity becomes when it finally achieves escape velocity from the constraints of terrestrial discourse- reasonableness, internal coherence, civility, and candor. Thus, the men who commited the atrocities of September 11 were neither cowards nor lunatics of any sort, but Men of Faith- perfect faith- and this, it must finally be acknowleged, is a terrible thing to be.
PETA is out of their minds, and, on the large, hypocrites about everything they preach.
Animals (should) have rights insofar as to not be killed needlessly or messily.
People should eat what they want.
Vegitarians have stinky poop (as evidenced by the constant funk in the art building bathrooms).
Wanna really make it stink? Drink soy milk for a week straight. Then the party can begin.
