Good Jazz

[Dr Legostar]

The Bad Plus

And my dad's in a group called Dreamtime

this dreamtime?

dreamtime

[Yeahduff]

If someone is interested in jazz, they don't need to be pointed in the direction of Tom Waits or Cowboy Bebop. Holy crap. That's like asking if there are any good superhero films out there to rent and you suggest Superman IV: The Quest For Peace.

Fine, but snobbish attitudes toward parties who are interested in learning aren't helpful either.

[Legion of Boom]

Fine, but snobbish attitudes toward parties who are interested in learning aren't helpful either.

I hear ya, but the topic is "Good Jazz" and although it is up for interpretation, it is a direct request about jazz musicians and not six degrees from jazz. Not being snobby. Just trying to keep the topic relevant to the original post.

[Dr Legostar]

Fine, but snobbish attitudes toward parties who are interested in learning aren't helpful either.

I hear ya, but the topic is "Good Jazz" and although it is up for interpretation, it is a direct request about jazz musicians and not six degrees from jazz. Not being snobby. Just trying to keep the topic relevant to the original post.

this is "off topic" we don't do that here.

[Yeahduff]

The yellow-blocky one speaks truth. Surpised we're even still talking jazz.

Sarah Vaughn is a vocalist I've enjoyed, though I typically prefer instrumental. And man, Ella Fitzgerald.

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

I tend to prefer non-vocal jazz myself.

[Dr Legostar]

i'm still trying to define the line between what you guys call jazz and what I call Swing, cause you say "Duke Elington" and I sure as hell don't think "jazz"

[Yeahduff]

Jazz is still trying to define that line. It's really an all-over-the-goddamn-place sorta genre

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

There is more than one type of jazz, much in the same way Flaming Lips and AC/DC are both classified as rock. We played mostly big band charts in jazz band in college. Brubeck and Tony Williams are both jazz.

Here's some tony williams:
http://www.myspace.com/tonywilliamsrocks

Fred is a good track.

[Phact0rri]

I think Snobbish comes from all genres of music.. except country.. I never met an elite country listener.

[BrownEyedCat]

I took an entire class on jazz, and yes, Swing jazz is also jazz.

If I remembered more about the class I'd be helpful, at the moment all I really think I can contribute is random facts. Most of what I took from the course is that Jelly Roll Morton's 'Black Bottom Stomp' will be stuck in my head forever.

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

I think Snobbish comes from all genres of music.. except country.. I never met an elite country listener.

True that. This is especially true of the indie rock scene and jazz (particularly bop).

[Ian Moulding]

I hear ya, but the topic is "Good Jazz" and although it is up for interpretation, it is a direct request about jazz musicians and not six degrees from jazz. Not being snobby. Just trying to keep the topic relevant to the original post.

Is it acceptable to recommend Skip James, or is that too bluesy to be jazz?

Or - To phrase it a little less snarky-ish - Your definition of jazz doesn't seem to include the beats or anyone inspired by them. Mine does, and I wanted to recommend at least one of those guys to LibertyCabbage. I'm not going to worry too much about definitions of real jazz because none of the working jazz musicians I know worry too much about definitions.

Now that I think about it though, I'm definitely going to recommend Skip James. Absolutely mindblowing. Also Jelly Roll Morton and James Reese Europe.

[Phact0rri]

I think Snobbish comes from all genres of music.. except country.. I never met an elite country listener.

True that. This is especially true of the indie rock scene and jazz (particularly bop).

bebop improv... those guys are as scary as the 70 year old ex college professor Opera buffs...

and trust me I use to work in a record store. ^_~

I took an entire class on jazz, and yes, Swing jazz is also jazz.

I think Lego was being silly. Its hard to argue the point, that Swing is a sort of jazz. Hell the swung note, and upbeat blue note have been aspects of jazz since forever.

[Dr Legostar]

I took an entire class on jazz, and yes, Swing jazz is also jazz.

yes but where do you draw the line between swing jazz and jazz, frankly i find jazz music really hard to dance to.

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

Swing tends to feature a larger enemble with largely fixed arrangements and less focus on improvisation aside from solos. The other thing you're calling jazz is performed by smaller groups that react to each other and have a musical conversation of sorts. It's largely improv here. Dancing isn't a priority with bebop.

As a musician and an artist, I don't like categorizing things too much (that's what journalists do), but distinctions have to be made somewhere.

[Yeahduff]

I think Snobbish comes from all genres of music.. except country.. I never met an elite country listener.

Lord knows I have. Surely you're familiar with alt country.

But even besides that, even the overproduced adult contemporary crap that Nashville is calling country these days has elitist fans. It just a little different. They'll say things like, "They're uppity," or "Guess I'm just a simple country boy," but they'll hold their noses up while saying it. One asshole once asked me "So, you into country yet?" as if it were an inevitability.

Oh yeah, it's Dave Brubeck's birthday. Worship, bitches.

[Anywherebuthere]

It really depends on what you define "jazz" as. There's swing, bop, lounge, fusion, cool, big band, tin pan alley, ragtime, new orleans, 50's Pop, Neuvo Jazz Revival, and the shit that Kenny G puts out.

As a preable I'll say this:

This is the first law of being a fan of jazz is this" You MUST own a copy of Miles Davis "Kind of Blue". This is an unspoken truth that every person who listen to jazz understands.

Everyone has it in their collection.

I'll say it again, just in case you missed it.

EVERY JAZZ LISTENER HAS THIS ALBUM IN THEIR COLLECTION.

Every jerk that claims they "Listen to Jazz" to score some tail at party's has this album in their collection (and only this album most of the time) and will play it to uneducated lasses in the hopes of seeming sophisticated.

So, if you want to at least CLAIM you listen to jazz. You're going to need a copy of Kind of Blue.

With that said, after you pick up kind of blue here's what I personally reccomend.

Miles Davis: Baggs Groove, Walkin', Cookin' with the Miles Davis Quintet, Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain, In a Silent Way, Bitches Brew, Do Bop
Harry Connic Jr: We are in Love, Come by Me, Blue Light Red Light
Cab Caloway: Are you Hip to the Jive
Buddy Rich: The Best of Buddy
Billy Holiday: Lady sings the blues
Stan Kenton: Cuban Fire, Journey into Capricorn, The Best of Stan Kenton
Esquivelle: Space Aged Batchelor Pad Music
Charles Mingus: Mingus Ah Um, Let My Children Hear Music
Dizzy Gillespy: Gillespania/Live at Carnage Hall
John Coletrain: Giant Steps, My favorite Things,
Mahavishnu Orchestra: Apocolypse, Birds of Fire
Return to Forver: Romantic Warrior
Al DiMeola: Splendido Hotel,
Chick Corea: My Spanish Heart, Time Warp
Crown Royal Review: Mugzy's Move
Squirrel Nut Zippers: Hell
Brian Seltzer Orchestra: The Dirty Boogy

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

Hmm, I've never actually heard the original version of My Spanish Heart. I've only heard the Blue Devils '94 version.

Oh yeah, Billy Cobham is great too.

[Anywherebuthere]

I took an entire class on jazz, and yes, Swing jazz is also jazz.

yes but where do you draw the line between swing jazz and jazz, frankly i find jazz music really hard to dance to.

You don't.

BeBop IS hard to dance to, because it's SUPPOST to be hard to dance to. That doesn't mean it's NOT jazz.

Jazz was a break in tradition from Orchestral and Concert band music. It was THE counterculture of the early 20th century.

By the MID 20th century...when all those roudy teenagers grew up, became the stuff that ma and pa would listen to reminiscing about the great war of 'Ot 9, and it evolved again through BeBop to become the counterculture.

By the 70's, BeBop was square. Everyone had Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" and Brubecks "Time Out" and Jazz lost it's edge. It changed again and FUSION became the counterculture. You had big band touring groups STILL touring the nation, but at the same time you had Miles Davis, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, and Chick Corea all saying "wait man, that's old, let's try something new." While George Clinton took it in an ENTIRELY new direction and created FUNK.

Those old fusion albums were used as some of the FIRST rap samples. I shit you not. Digital Underground was notorious for taking samples from Miles Davis Funk albums to use in their own material.

And then, for a few years, Jazz just dissapeared. The Cout Basie Orchestra was still touring...but NOTHING was happening with Jazz.

Then, in the mid 90's groups like the Squirrel Nut Zippers DID something new with it by going retro. Harry Connic Jr. was getting airplay. The Crown Royals were composing BRAND NEW jazz tracks. Nuvo Swing was in. Cake was doing some VERY cool beat poet stuff. Lisa Ekdahl started crooning (and very well I may add) Madalyn Peroux was doing awesome new work.

Heck, GURU was hiring jazz musicians to use on his rap albums.

Jazz started finding it's feet again.

The point is, Jazz never stays defined for too long. As soon as it becomes popular, it shifts into something new. Once you "hear" jazz, you will know jazz. It's not ONE style. It's a SPIRIT of music, and once you hear the spirit, you can recognize it anywhere it pops up.