Simple sketch. Any constructive criticism?

Slacks · Post by **Slacks** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:28 pm

This is a sketch of the first 3 frames of the comic I was thinking of starting. They were not fixed up or inked yet. I just thought I would ask for some pointers before then.

In case you were wondering the text is as follows

Frame 1: Scream of some sort "aahhh"
frame 2: no text.
frame 3: What the hell happened to me?!

Probably a little cliche but tell me what you think anyway. The cat's shading didn't turn up very well on here.

Dan The Lefty · Post by **Dan The Lefty** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:01 pm

Very nice background work! Nice shading and texturing too. When you ink it (if you ink it. It looks pretty good in pencil), just make sure the borders are thicker. It's hard to tell were panel 1 ends and panel 2 begins. The cat looks a little weird, but that could just be the style you're going for.

War · Post by **War** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:41 am

It's rough, unclear and not much to go on.

I can't even tell what's supposed to be happening in the second panel.
Use a ruler for the buildings, your lines are all over the place. If you don't fancy your final comic having dead straight lines ink freehand, but you need to underdraw with a ruler at least, your lines are all over the place and the perspective is just screwed.
As for the last panel, google for pictures of cats, draw lots of cats. I figure this cat is gonna be pretty prominent in the comic so you need to get cats down to pat. In particular, the bodyshape, currently it looks more like a stuffed toy than a real cat.

Warofwinds · Post by **Warofwinds** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:35 am

I'm noticing some confusion in the perspective you've drawn, mostly which lines to follow to the horizon. Here's how I would do it (click to make bigger):

I also heartily agree with using a face reference for the cat. I had a similar page about a year back that I really should've used a reference for, and I wish I had now. A quick google search turned up a couple you could use:

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/Home/A ... e-497.html

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Cats/CatLaugh.jpg

http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/cat-one6.jpg

Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:24 am

I agree with what the two wars said.

To add: I can't tell where the cat is in he third panel. Either some brickwork somewhere or detail of what's behind the cat would be a good idea... it just adds to the confusion of not knowing what's going on in the second panel.

Also, don't rush on those penciled in shadows... the one between the building in the first panel get really scribbly, especially at the bottom. It makes it look sloppy. So take the time to fill in shadowed areas completely.

If the cat's shading did not show up very well, then you're not doing it dark enough. I know that shading living organisms can be scary, so practice shading the cat darker before putting it into a comic... or don't shade it at all. There are a lot of comics and cartoons that get along fine without shading. Shading so light that it barely shows up just looks unprofessional.

Also, for your final comic: you'll want to have a copy of Photoshop or GIMP (free to download) just so that you can mess with the "Levels" of your scans. It'll make your whites whiter and your darks darker... making it look much cleaner.

Slacks · Post by **Slacks** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:27 am

War wrote:It's rough, unclear and not much to go on.

I can't even tell what's supposed to be happening in the second panel.
Use a ruler for the buildings, your lines are all over the place. If you don't fancy your final comic having dead straight lines ink freehand, but you need to underdraw with a ruler at least, your lines are all over the place and the perspective is just screwed.
As for the last panel, google for pictures of cats, draw lots of cats. I figure this cat is gonna be pretty prominent in the comic so you need to get cats down to pat. In particular, the bodyshape, currently it looks more like a stuffed toy than a real cat.

Thanks for the advice. I did the shape of the buildings with a ruler but I free handed the windows in math class. I do need a lot of work on my cats. I picked up an animal anatomy book as well as printed off a few pictures. The realistic version of him didn't turn out the best so I figured I would cartoonize him a bit.

warofwinds wrote:I'm noticing some confusion in the perspective you've drawn, mostly which lines to follow to the horizon. Here's how I would do it (click to make bigger):

I also heartily agree with using a face reference for the cat. I had a similar page about a year back that I really should've used a reference for, and I wish I had now. A quick google search turned up a couple you could use:

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/Home/A ... e-497.html

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Cats/CatLaugh.jpg

http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/cat-one6.jpg

Thanks. That helped a lot and the mirror shards were a nice touch. But the thing it is leaning on is actually a dumpster.

Guess I should work on the second panel a bit more. Maybe add some text.

And lastly Thanks for the encouragement Dan. I'll make a better panel design with clearer boundaries after I fix it up a bit.

P.s.

Black Sparrow wrote:I agree with what the two wars said.

To add: I can't tell where the cat is in he third panel. Either some brickwork somewhere or detail of what's behind the cat would be a good idea... it just adds to the confusion of not knowing what's going on in the second panel.

Also, don't rush on those penciled in shadows... the one between the building in the first panel get really scribbly, especially at the bottom. It makes it look sloppy. So take the time to fill in shadowed areas completely.

If the cat's shading did not show up very well, then you're not doing it dark enough. I know that shading living organisms can be scary, so practice shading the cat darker before putting it into a comic... or don't shade it at all. There are a lot of comics and cartoons that get along fine without shading. Shading so light that it barely shows up just looks unprofessional.

Also, for your final comic: you'll want to have a copy of Photoshop or GIMP (free to download) just so that you can mess with the "Levels" of your scans. It'll make your whites whiter and your darks darker... making it look much cleaner.

I was thinking of adding brick but I wasn't sure if it would look better as space or with a wall. I probably should have done it a bit harder but I was going to fix it up on the computer when I had the base image down. I have GIMP, Photoshop, and Paintshop Pro. The only thing I did so far was mess with the levels so you could see the pencil lines better.

Caybo · Post by **Caybo** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:44 am

I'd look at some doorframes, as that first panel the door looks very flat against it's frame. Doors don't run into the walls, but rather stand a bit out when they're opened. That seems to be the only thing that really caught my eye from a perspective point of view that could really enhance the drawing.

I'd also suggest some more drastic shading to make things stand out more, but that will be the sort of thing that you'll probably do when you work on the finished product anyway.

Slacks · Post by **Slacks** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:19 am

Panel 1 still without words.

Dutch! · Post by **Dutch!** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:24 am

If you're gonna use a brick texture for your walls, then see if you can somehow angle the texture to follow the three dimensional angle of the walls.

Warofwinds · Post by **Warofwinds** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:14 pm

The windows further away need to be narrower than the windows closer. I also suggest something other than a gradient for the top of the building. Maybe make a true rooftop out of it? Chimney or air vents or something?

Phact0rri · Post by **Phact0rri** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:59 pm

Being someone who tried to take the easy way (admitedly) when he first started drawing for the nets... don't.

There are people who know how to make good use of filters, and materials. but its not something to be used lightly. Draw out the brick patterns because of the perspective, the way the patterns go up and down, it looks like a pattern. the gradient flow does not make sense with the moonlight.

if your going to define the shapes with shadows and lights, then shade with the paint brush. its best to learn how to manipulate the paint brush, and get details going in your original drawing. take your time and make all the features you want in your line work. and then once you get that down pat, move to playing with other features. but don't use things cause you don't feel like doing them. you aren't going to learn anything.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but its really important. The picture is hard to follow, and it makes it look more like someone excited about their first copy of photoshop.

Slacks · Post by **Slacks** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:29 pm

Well I can't deny I'm a bit lazy. I will try to work on that. Probably have about the same advice as this one huh?

These were with psp though. I don't have my photoshop pc with me.

Duralict · Post by **Duralict** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:11 pm

To be perfectly honest, it looks like you used filters on some photographs and collaged them together. I also see some pretty sloppy matte lines - that's those white bits around the edge. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but it's just not coherent - the mirror rim is a straight up single tone, the red things (are those bricks or shingles? Is this picture outside?) look like a tweaked photograph, the mirror texture is way too symmetrical to be anything found in real life (is that a square gradient copy/pasted?). There's nothing wrong with it compositionally, and I see you left space for speech bubbles, so it's not hopeless, but you've got a ways to go on this one.

There's just no way around this - you are going to have to draw your own textures and your own lineart if you ever want the stuff in your picture to look like they came from the same image. There's no way to do that without a lot of practice. (It's definitely possible to do this with photographs, but believe me it's way more difficult than you think and waaay more time-consuming than drawing it yourself.)

You seem comfortable enough with a pencil. My advice to you is to think of the photo collage you just made as a reference image, and draw what you see on the screen in your sketchbook. If you can get the drawing looking right, you can scan it in and play around coloring in your lines - which is great practice, by the way.

And on a compositional note: from the script you have posted, there's no reason for this to be three panels. You can easily condense it into just one without losing anything.

Good luck!

Slacks · Post by **Slacks** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:18 pm

The only photo I used was the cat. But I'll work on it none the less. I think I will try again when I have photoshop or illustrator to work with. I'm usually more patient with them anyway and it will give me practice with the tablets.

Chelsee · Post by **Chelsee** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:48 pm

*whistles* Wooo... people sure know how to come down hard on a guy! It's something I've noticed with artists - if you imply you're not certain on how an image looks, they WILL tell you it's wrong.

I do agree - your style so far is a little rough, but you're only starting out, and the first thing a person must develop is confidence, or people will always jump on you. Artists are vicious, especially here on CG ^_^.

I think your first FLAW in this image is that you didn't quite have enough to show yet. Pencil sketches are alright if we know what's going on... I'm not saying you should have more in the first page (pacing is important), I'm saying you didn't have enough to show us. We're too confused - a rough of a building and a cat. That's it. Give us a taste of where it's going, and hey - we might be more understanding of your 'style', too, if it works with the plot...

Take a look at the Pitching page - they want TWENTY pages before you even bring it up.

Geekblather · Post by **Geekblather** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:17 am

I think that artists are harsh because we're also usually our own worst critics.
Slacks posted asking for help and critique, theoretically with a bent towards making their art better. If everyone were to say, "Oh, it's fine, keep going..." that's kind of useless as a critique.

So far as critique goes, study perspective and composition. A lot of comics run silent pages "nowadays" to set the mood. Which, works very well in a graphic novel of 75-100 pages or so. The artist(s) and writer(s) have a lot of time and space to set the pacing.

On the other hand, webcomics are not comic books. If you're only updating once or twice, or three times a week, posting silent images is basically throwing away a day of storytelling space.

(Runs and hides for a minute...)
(pokes head out.)

Looks safe again.

I agree that you can probably condense the whole page into one panel, and still have most of a page to actually tell story with. Just- something to think about.

Chelsee · Post by **Chelsee** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:37 pm

I agree that critiques can help, but saying "It looks like crap, here's why..." could be worded better. "I see what effect you're trying to have here placement/setup wise but it could be improved by..."

I'm not saying people here are THAT bad, of course ^_^. But artists just are harsh people. It can be troublesome showing a five-hour long project to someone only to have them say "this perspective on this hand is off".

And there are exceptions to every rule in art - textures and missing vanishing point can work well in a comic geared toward the surreal, to try and jilt reality have potential value... Which is why I'm saying there's just not enough material to let the viewer even KNOW what to say yet. It's not enough offered to form a solid opinion. Unless presentation is exceptional on the first few pages, I would wait until one at least has a completed scene before they can hope to get much in the way of decent feedback.