Yeah...and somebody's butchering Bryan Adams' stuff lately, too.
Dammit people, go make your own music! Leave ours alone!
*puts on zubas, a tank top, asymmetrical wraparound sunglasses, a pair of red Connies, and pops Pseudo Echo's 'Funkytown' in the cassette deck*
...
What?
-S
8-30-02 comic
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Jackiesfridge
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ZOMBIE USER 487
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I feel your pain!!!
Being a huge 70s progressive rock fan, but still enjoying many of the classics of the 70s and 80s, I have run into some extraordinary ignorance. Of course, many prog rock classics were based upon classical pieces, typically romantic and 20th century era stuff, but the bands usually make no bones about where it came from.
Let's join in a chant: Leave our music alone!
*** Tosses in some Mahavishnu Orchestra. ***
Being a huge 70s progressive rock fan, but still enjoying many of the classics of the 70s and 80s, I have run into some extraordinary ignorance. Of course, many prog rock classics were based upon classical pieces, typically romantic and 20th century era stuff, but the bands usually make no bones about where it came from.
Let's join in a chant: Leave our music alone!
*** Tosses in some Mahavishnu Orchestra. ***
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Schol-R-LEA
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It's not as if this is a new phenomenon, really. I remember in the mid-eighties hearing a widespread story of some kids who, while vieiwing an old Jimi Hendrix concert clip on Empty-Vee, asked who that lousy ripoff of Prince was...
And of course there's the legend of the teen in the 1970s who announced to her friend, "Did you know the Paul MacCartney was in a band before Wings?"
As far a covering songs or reusing melodies, I'm not too bothered by that - I've gone heavily into folk in the past two years, so original songs have begun to seem odd to me
The ignorance of a song's origins is galling at times, but hardly unexpected - how could they know about the originals, if they've never heard them before? Keep in mind that were talking thirteen and fourteen year olds, mostly - not people who have heard or seen very much except what the idiot box feeds to them. They were born years after the songs had faded away - hell, many of the artists are too young to remember the songs from when they were first popular.
Besides, 'Jack and Diane' was hardly original to begin with - I could name a half dozen folk songs that resemble it, and Mellencamp, old Wobblie that he is, surely knew at least one or two of them. It is a fairly simple tune anyway, and the similiarity is, more than likely, coincidence. Alanis Morrisette's 'Isn't It Ironic' (as just one example of a more recent tune) uses a very similiar chord progression. I mean, really, can you really imagine the singer in question (whoever she is ) listening to John Cougar Mellencamp in the first place? I doubt she's ever heard of the song, never mind actually heard it...
Damn earworm! There was another song from the late 1980s that did also, but the title and performer (female, but with a gravelly voice that could easily be mistaken for a man) escape me. "I need a Fast Car/to drive away/and get out of the city" are the closest I can come to remembering any of the lyrics; it was a rather depressing song about life in the inner city. Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? I've got a feeling it's going to bug me all day if I cant get my mind off of it.
And of course there's the legend of the teen in the 1970s who announced to her friend, "Did you know the Paul MacCartney was in a band before Wings?"
As far a covering songs or reusing melodies, I'm not too bothered by that - I've gone heavily into folk in the past two years, so original songs have begun to seem odd to me
The ignorance of a song's origins is galling at times, but hardly unexpected - how could they know about the originals, if they've never heard them before? Keep in mind that were talking thirteen and fourteen year olds, mostly - not people who have heard or seen very much except what the idiot box feeds to them. They were born years after the songs had faded away - hell, many of the artists are too young to remember the songs from when they were first popular.Besides, 'Jack and Diane' was hardly original to begin with - I could name a half dozen folk songs that resemble it, and Mellencamp, old Wobblie that he is, surely knew at least one or two of them. It is a fairly simple tune anyway, and the similiarity is, more than likely, coincidence. Alanis Morrisette's 'Isn't It Ironic' (as just one example of a more recent tune) uses a very similiar chord progression. I mean, really, can you really imagine the singer in question (whoever she is
) listening to John Cougar Mellencamp in the first place? I doubt she's ever heard of the song, never mind actually heard it...Damn earworm! There was another song from the late 1980s that did also, but the title and performer (female, but with a gravelly voice that could easily be mistaken for a man) escape me. "I need a Fast Car/to drive away/and get out of the city" are the closest I can come to remembering any of the lyrics; it was a rather depressing song about life in the inner city. Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? I've got a feeling it's going to bug me all day if I cant get my mind off of it.
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ZOMBIE USER 487
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There's also one other point to consider: When a song is "sampled" or recycled into something else for a new artist, royalties do get paid. Of course, with all of the brouhaha going on around the music industry, it becomes doubtful the artists themselves have any say in the permissions or even receive any of the money. I wouldn't be surprised if record contracts have clauses about keeping all monies from these "secondary markets".
But I don't want to turn this into a rant about the music industry, so I will stop there.
But I don't want to turn this into a rant about the music industry, so I will stop there.
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Appendix Q
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Schol-R-LEA: You're thinking of Tracey Chapman's song, "Fast Car."
This sort of confusion is always going to happen. I remember being surprised that "Venus" by Bananarama and "Bang A Gong" by Power Station, and even Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower" were actually covers of previous recordings. Kids will always want to listen to "new" stuff, and relatively few have the interest to discover that music existed before they were 13.
However, I'm with BJ on this one. It's one thing to do a cover, where the artist adds a new interpretation, or at least a different voice, to a song, or to borrow a chord progression. However, I think sampling, especially when its more than just a few bars, shows a complete lack of creativity and is functionally theft. The J. Simpson song in question uses the EXACT guitar riff from the openning of Jack and Diane, with a drum track super-imposed. Its an unfortunate trend in the music industry, but at least, while the artists have no choice (it was ruled to be covered under fair use), they should get compensated for the use of their work.
Creg
(Aside: In a similar vain, it is JUST PLAIN WRONG to use The Who's music in TV Commercials. Thanks you.)
This sort of confusion is always going to happen. I remember being surprised that "Venus" by Bananarama and "Bang A Gong" by Power Station, and even Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower" were actually covers of previous recordings. Kids will always want to listen to "new" stuff, and relatively few have the interest to discover that music existed before they were 13.
However, I'm with BJ on this one. It's one thing to do a cover, where the artist adds a new interpretation, or at least a different voice, to a song, or to borrow a chord progression. However, I think sampling, especially when its more than just a few bars, shows a complete lack of creativity and is functionally theft. The J. Simpson song in question uses the EXACT guitar riff from the openning of Jack and Diane, with a drum track super-imposed. Its an unfortunate trend in the music industry, but at least, while the artists have no choice (it was ruled to be covered under fair use), they should get compensated for the use of their work.
Creg
(Aside: In a similar vain, it is JUST PLAIN WRONG to use The Who's music in TV Commercials. Thanks you.)
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BJ
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Schol-R-LEA, Susano-o: I'm with you guys. It's not new to rip off other peoples' music. Listen to Led Zeppelin and the Stones for a while, then go through the Smithsonian's field recordings of old blues artists from the 30s or so. All the riffs are there.
The thing is, though, the Jessica Simpson song falls into the same category as "U Can't Touch This" by MC Hammer and (my all time favourite, as a diehard Queen fan) "Ice Ice Baby" by Vanilla Ice. Take a catchy riff, loop it and rap or sing over the top of it. Think Puff Daddy. They don't even perform it themselves, they just hit the 'record' button.
I much prefer PseudoEcho's version of "Funkytown" to the Lipps Inc version. It's more uptempo, louder and a bit more polished. But it's arrogant to jump to the conclusion that the original 'sucks' because without it, there wouldn't be the new version. What this strip is about isn't the ignorance of the pop radio crowd, it's the arrogance and willful, almost defiant ignorance. "Our music is ours, not recycled bits of your old crap."
When "Wayne's World" was still in theatres, I was standing behind an 11-year-old at the music store. When he got to the counter, he asked, "Do you have anything by that new group, Queen? When's their album coming out?" Freddie had just recently died at that point, and I just wanted to hit that kid. But. He was interested, he wanted to pursue the music, and he ASKED.
So I let him live.
On the flip side, I listen to a lot of electronica. Samples are all over the place, but it's interesting to see how artists use them. Information Society is 100% sample based, but he samples EVERYTHING: vacuum cleaners, breaking dishes, sharpening knives, splats, thuds, cars, you name it...and hammers it into some fine industrial music.
Jesus Jones sample more from other music, usually classic rock and blues, but they warp the sounds, usually a split second of noise or a single "yeah." The Jones boys also layer tons of samples on top of each other to perform their original compositions, and many of them are samples of the band themselves.
Anyway, the key here is the fact that if you MUST rip off a hook or melody, perform it your darn self. I checked the All Music Guide, and John Mellencamp gets primary songwriting credit for the Jessica Simpson song. It still hurts to hear it on the radio, though.
The thing is, though, the Jessica Simpson song falls into the same category as "U Can't Touch This" by MC Hammer and (my all time favourite, as a diehard Queen fan) "Ice Ice Baby" by Vanilla Ice. Take a catchy riff, loop it and rap or sing over the top of it. Think Puff Daddy. They don't even perform it themselves, they just hit the 'record' button.
I much prefer PseudoEcho's version of "Funkytown" to the Lipps Inc version. It's more uptempo, louder and a bit more polished. But it's arrogant to jump to the conclusion that the original 'sucks' because without it, there wouldn't be the new version. What this strip is about isn't the ignorance of the pop radio crowd, it's the arrogance and willful, almost defiant ignorance. "Our music is ours, not recycled bits of your old crap."
When "Wayne's World" was still in theatres, I was standing behind an 11-year-old at the music store. When he got to the counter, he asked, "Do you have anything by that new group, Queen? When's their album coming out?" Freddie had just recently died at that point, and I just wanted to hit that kid. But. He was interested, he wanted to pursue the music, and he ASKED.
So I let him live.
On the flip side, I listen to a lot of electronica. Samples are all over the place, but it's interesting to see how artists use them. Information Society is 100% sample based, but he samples EVERYTHING: vacuum cleaners, breaking dishes, sharpening knives, splats, thuds, cars, you name it...and hammers it into some fine industrial music.
Jesus Jones sample more from other music, usually classic rock and blues, but they warp the sounds, usually a split second of noise or a single "yeah." The Jones boys also layer tons of samples on top of each other to perform their original compositions, and many of them are samples of the band themselves.
Anyway, the key here is the fact that if you MUST rip off a hook or melody, perform it your darn self. I checked the All Music Guide, and John Mellencamp gets primary songwriting credit for the Jessica Simpson song. It still hurts to hear it on the radio, though.
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Cannonshop
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Good job on today's strip, BJ. I still get the Blackboad 'n Fingernails sensation when I hear "Music" that isn't anything more than crappy jump-rope-rhyme overlaid on a Canned riff with a heavy (canned) drumbeat. It's not that it's just a ripoff, it's that it, for the most part, is a ripoff that SUCKS. Industrial isn't just "Sampling", most of the Industrial I remember (Skinny Puppy, for instance...) was created by people who were also able to write their own stuff, and, it didn't rely entirely on rearranging someone else's recordings. While "Singing" (talking) badly.
With a heavy (read: Computer Generated) bass beat.
With a heavy (read: Computer Generated) bass beat.
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BastetKitten
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Arg.....
OY! Alright, I'm 14 and it always gets mah goat when people associate EVERYONE under the: Britney rulz, and Making the Band is so cool; genre. Don't get me wrong. There are plenty of 'em. But I absolutely HATE generalizations. I also hate TV. Alright now that that's gone.Keep in mind that were talking thirteen and fourteen year olds, mostly - not people who have heard or seen very much except what the idiot box feeds to them.
YAY! BJ listens to Elektronica! I love that stuff. Bjork just plain rocks (a fan. Can you tell? And yes i thought the swan dress was cool.) Techno and Euro-pop, and 80's and 70's and Frank Wildhorn, and Broadway music, and *goes off on music tangent, and then just listens to Linda Eder for a while.*
No not THE Zaphod Beeblebrox, A Zaphod Beeblebrox. Didn't you hear? I come in 6-packs.
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Zodo
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Hey, John Mellencamp isn't a Wobblie! He's a Hoosier, from Seymour Indiana, about two hours from me.
As for 'borrowing songs, The eighties weren't exempt. Billy Idol didn't write "Mony Mony", and Whatsherface didn't write "I think we're alone now". Both were originally done by Tommy James and the Shondelles, in the SIXTIES!
Unfortunately, (or maybe that's fortunately) I don't listen to pop music. When I'm not listening to my minidiscs in my car, I keep it tuned to the new Classic Rock station (that hasn't sold out and started playing a lot of the new crap over and over). It's rare that they play anything less than 20 years old.
-Zodo, CI
Consummate Troublemaker
King of the Tonja Steele Forum
As for 'borrowing songs, The eighties weren't exempt. Billy Idol didn't write "Mony Mony", and Whatsherface didn't write "I think we're alone now". Both were originally done by Tommy James and the Shondelles, in the SIXTIES!
Unfortunately, (or maybe that's fortunately) I don't listen to pop music. When I'm not listening to my minidiscs in my car, I keep it tuned to the new Classic Rock station (that hasn't sold out and started playing a lot of the new crap over and over). It's rare that they play anything less than 20 years old.
-Zodo, CI
Consummate Troublemaker
King of the Tonja Steele Forum
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BunnyStompthePig
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Hooo Boy, Music!!
Where to start on tossing my unwanted two cents in???
Alright, I'm starting to get towards the older end of the spectrum. I am constantly having to introduce people I work with to what I call the basics of music ('least to me!). When people don't know Kansas, Rush, Led Zepplin, Fleetwood Mac, Iron Maiden and others, that I take for granted, it irritates me. When they've never been exposed to the great guitarists (Johnson(both Eric and Robert), Satch, Schenker, Petrucci) I take it upon myself to introduce 'em.
I am not going to say that there is no good new music, there really is. I've enjoyed some of the albums that are popular now. Hoobastank, Linkin Park, Avril Lavigne, they put out good music that I can listen to a majority of the disc.
I am also not going to say that I hate covers. Heck covers were ways I was introduced to Golden Earring (thru the excellent White Lion cover of "Radar Love"). The weirdest thing is, and get this, when I was a wee teen I had no clue who Led Zepplin was. One night on Evening at the Improv, I heard this dude play this song called "Buying a Seven-Eleven". So I asked my mom what song he was parodying, not knowing anything about "Stairway". Now I hold Page up there with Schenker, Johnson and Clark as one of the Greats.
I've also gotta admit that there are some covers I prefer. I used to listen to a lot of Blue Oyster Cult. Reaper ruled, as did Godzilla and I enjoyed Astronomy. Please don't kill me for this, but I enjoyed the Metallica version even better. I used to listen to Bob Seger on a tape deck, but I've gotta say that again, Metallica's version of Turn the Page is equally pleasing to the ear.
I truly believe that there is good music in all types of music. I won't list but there's no bad genre of music, just lots of lousy artists. Heck there's even one good Hawaiian song.
So do I have a point for this ramble......
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I'm looking.
Oh yeah, here it is. I totally agree with Susan-o. One of the great all time driving songs should never be abused in a car commercial!!!!
--Drives off in a cloud of tire smoke, "WE WON'T BE FOOLED AGAIN!!" blasting from the tape deck....
Alright, I'm starting to get towards the older end of the spectrum. I am constantly having to introduce people I work with to what I call the basics of music ('least to me!). When people don't know Kansas, Rush, Led Zepplin, Fleetwood Mac, Iron Maiden and others, that I take for granted, it irritates me. When they've never been exposed to the great guitarists (Johnson(both Eric and Robert), Satch, Schenker, Petrucci) I take it upon myself to introduce 'em.
I am not going to say that there is no good new music, there really is. I've enjoyed some of the albums that are popular now. Hoobastank, Linkin Park, Avril Lavigne, they put out good music that I can listen to a majority of the disc.
I am also not going to say that I hate covers. Heck covers were ways I was introduced to Golden Earring (thru the excellent White Lion cover of "Radar Love"). The weirdest thing is, and get this, when I was a wee teen I had no clue who Led Zepplin was. One night on Evening at the Improv, I heard this dude play this song called "Buying a Seven-Eleven". So I asked my mom what song he was parodying, not knowing anything about "Stairway". Now I hold Page up there with Schenker, Johnson and Clark as one of the Greats.
I've also gotta admit that there are some covers I prefer. I used to listen to a lot of Blue Oyster Cult. Reaper ruled, as did Godzilla and I enjoyed Astronomy. Please don't kill me for this, but I enjoyed the Metallica version even better. I used to listen to Bob Seger on a tape deck, but I've gotta say that again, Metallica's version of Turn the Page is equally pleasing to the ear.
I truly believe that there is good music in all types of music. I won't list but there's no bad genre of music, just lots of lousy artists. Heck there's even one good Hawaiian song.
So do I have a point for this ramble......
....
...
..
.
I'm looking.
Oh yeah, here it is. I totally agree with Susan-o. One of the great all time driving songs should never be abused in a car commercial!!!!
--Drives off in a cloud of tire smoke, "WE WON'T BE FOOLED AGAIN!!" blasting from the tape deck....
Welcome to the rest of your life!
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Are you scared yet?
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Are you scared yet?
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Jackiesfridge
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Re: 8-30-02 comic
I was kinda hopin' someone would get the joke here...as I complain about people stealing/butchering "my" music...what do I listen to?jackiesfridge wrote:*puts on zubas, a tank top, asymmetrical wraparound sunglasses, a pair of red Connies, and pops Pseudo Echo's 'Funkytown' in the cassette deck*
Here's a hint - look up the original artists for Funkytown.
-S, who apparently ain't so funny after all
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BJ
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One of the all time great driving songs already WAS used in a car commercial: "She Sells Sanctuary" by the Cult. I nearly had an anyeurism when I heard that one.
Mmmmm....and Joe Satriani. His new album kicks "Engines"'s butt.
Zodo: You know all I listen to is my crap (minidiscs in the car, etc). But at work, they ALWAYS have the radio on in the back. If it's not top-40 crap, it's top-40 country crap. And I'm sorry, while I can listen to old country (through the mid 80s), I can't STAND new country. It's become a horrid caricature of itself.
BastetKitten: Linda Eder?! You scary. A roommate of mine put me off Bjork when she listened to her CONSTANTLY when I was bedridden for nearly a month with a fever. Not good fever music; had many hallucinations. But yeah...if you look closely at the original art for some of the JF strips, I'll throw in Jackie's industrial collection. Front 242, Skinny Puppy, Front Line Assembly, Trauma, Dissonance, Deadsy, InSoc, all of 'em have made it into the background art. Still need to do a Neo-Tek reference, though. Oh--and in the "your crap vs. my crap" strip, once I get it inked, you'll see that Jackie has a Split-Second tee shirt on.
Cannonshop: That's the industrial I like (see the above list and throw in BiGod-20 for good measure). The last InSoc album ("Don't Be Afraid") was all samples, yeah, but samples of found sounds. Like 242 or older Depeche Mode sampling metal pipes clanging together. Harland also used DBA to parody the style of music he recorded it in: there's lots of goofy references to insanity, darkness and death ("There's 24 metric tons of fear closing in on me" is a line that still cracks me up), all with a thorough knowledge and appreciation of old school AND new industrial.
So, with all of my love for old industrial, why have I been listening to Prozzak nonstop for the past few days? I have no clue. I guess I need a little (well-crafted, written and recorded from scratch) happy dippy pop sometimes. And the same chick who ruined Bjork for me also introduced me to Prozzak, so I guess it all evens out.
Mmmmm....and Joe Satriani. His new album kicks "Engines"'s butt.
Zodo: You know all I listen to is my crap (minidiscs in the car, etc). But at work, they ALWAYS have the radio on in the back. If it's not top-40 crap, it's top-40 country crap. And I'm sorry, while I can listen to old country (through the mid 80s), I can't STAND new country. It's become a horrid caricature of itself.
BastetKitten: Linda Eder?! You scary. A roommate of mine put me off Bjork when she listened to her CONSTANTLY when I was bedridden for nearly a month with a fever. Not good fever music; had many hallucinations. But yeah...if you look closely at the original art for some of the JF strips, I'll throw in Jackie's industrial collection. Front 242, Skinny Puppy, Front Line Assembly, Trauma, Dissonance, Deadsy, InSoc, all of 'em have made it into the background art. Still need to do a Neo-Tek reference, though. Oh--and in the "your crap vs. my crap" strip, once I get it inked, you'll see that Jackie has a Split-Second tee shirt on.
Cannonshop: That's the industrial I like (see the above list and throw in BiGod-20 for good measure). The last InSoc album ("Don't Be Afraid") was all samples, yeah, but samples of found sounds. Like 242 or older Depeche Mode sampling metal pipes clanging together. Harland also used DBA to parody the style of music he recorded it in: there's lots of goofy references to insanity, darkness and death ("There's 24 metric tons of fear closing in on me" is a line that still cracks me up), all with a thorough knowledge and appreciation of old school AND new industrial.
So, with all of my love for old industrial, why have I been listening to Prozzak nonstop for the past few days? I have no clue. I guess I need a little (well-crafted, written and recorded from scratch) happy dippy pop sometimes. And the same chick who ruined Bjork for me also introduced me to Prozzak, so I guess it all evens out.
I'm with ya on the latest country, BJ. I used to listen to country all the time in the 90s when I was driving around, and I enjoyed country music.
The latest stuff does nothing for me. I'd rather just drive with the radio off. So now I get to wait another 5-10 years so I can listen to the good stuff again on an country oldies station...
God that's depressing.......
The latest stuff does nothing for me. I'd rather just drive with the radio off. So now I get to wait another 5-10 years so I can listen to the good stuff again on an country oldies station...
God that's depressing.......
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StarrPolish
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ZOMBIE USER 1159
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Yeesh, you people are serious about your music. I just add the odd song/group that I run across and like. I don't have time to get into it like you people! 
I did run into a nifty instance of sampling, there's a song playing at work that seems to sample the beat from an old anime theme. I mean it's still recognizable, just wish I could remember which it was .
I did run into a nifty instance of sampling, there's a song playing at work that seems to sample the beat from an old anime theme. I mean it's still recognizable, just wish I could remember which it was
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BunnyStompthePig
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Gasp!!
StarrPolish, are you saying that Avril has no musical talent?????!!!
Hmmph....
I dunno, maybe I'm just a poor ol' sailor who'll happily listen to any female voice, as long as it's semi-melodic. Gimme my Avril, Vanessae's (Mae and Carlton), Michelle Branch, Nelli Furtado. Maria Nayler, Lara Fabian and (no don't say it!!) Dora Pesch!!!
Yep, I'm just an old sailor who likes female voices along with my traditional prog-rock.
Anyway Starr, please don't mock my poor ol' tastes, I'm just a poor traditional sailor, sorry!
StarrPolish, are you saying that Avril has no musical talent?????!!!
Hmmph....
I dunno, maybe I'm just a poor ol' sailor who'll happily listen to any female voice, as long as it's semi-melodic. Gimme my Avril, Vanessae's (Mae and Carlton), Michelle Branch, Nelli Furtado. Maria Nayler, Lara Fabian and (no don't say it!!) Dora Pesch!!!
Yep, I'm just an old sailor who likes female voices along with my traditional prog-rock.
Anyway Starr, please don't mock my poor ol' tastes, I'm just a poor traditional sailor, sorry!
Welcome to the rest of your life!
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Are you scared yet?
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Are you scared yet?
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Red_Cedars
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Just to let you know where I'm coming from, it wasn't until very recently (within the last month) that I learned that Jessica Simpson wasn't Bart's little sister.Appendix Q wrote: Since I am thankfully ignorant of Jessica Simpson's "work", ...
$0.02
R_C (blissfully unaware of pop culture, thank you very much)
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Sometimes, if you listen very carefully,
behind all the noise and confusion,
you can hear the Silence.
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Sometimes, if you listen very carefully,
behind all the noise and confusion,
you can hear the Silence.
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