The Lions are getting the Sagan treatment. (12/6)

The Lions are getting the Sagan treatment. (12/6)

Postby Kanaeda Kuonji on Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:45 pm

I looked at the argument the lion was having with our resident hero, and it seems to me that our hero is subjecting the lions to what can be best described as a Baloney Detector test.

Carl Sagan describes the Baloney detector as something every scientist is equipped with, and is used to tell the difference between a good argument and bunk.

http://www.geocities.com/kenthovind/baloney.html

The above link will show you the baloney detector's various methods.

Oh yeah, and I love the chess reference being brought into the story. Our hero has him beat :)
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Re: The Lions are getting the Sagan treatment. (12/6)

Postby Kellogg on Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:11 am

Kanaeda Kuonji wrote:Carl Sagan describes the Baloney detector as something every scientist is equipped with, and is used to tell the difference between a good argument and bunk.

http://www.geocities.com/kenthovind/baloney.html


Hey! That's a neat article! Thanks!
A neat little summary of logical arguments.

The main problem with all these arguments is that people are often
arguing from completely different perspectives.

Jack is trying to make his argument logically.
Mr. Ruthrerington-Smythe is arguing emotionally.

Sam Starfall from Freefall wrote:"In battles between logic and emotion,
I've never seen logic win yet."

http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff200/fv00193.htm

Which sort of shows you what Jack is up against...

Oh yeah, and I love the chess reference being brought into the story. Our hero has him beat :)


:D

Scott
Last edited by Kellogg on Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Lions are getting the Sagan treatment. (12/6)

Postby Hortmage on Sat Dec 07, 2002 6:10 pm

Kellogg wrote:The main problem with all these arguments is that people are often
arguing from completely different perspectives.

Jack is trying to make his argument logically.
Mr. Ruthrerington-Smythe is arguing emotionally.

Sam Starfall from Freefall wrote:"In battles between logic and emotion,
I've never seen logic win yet."

http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff200/fv00193.htm

Which sort of shows you what Jack is up against...



In my RL job, I deal with this a lot, especially in the realms of pesticide usage, biotechnology, and the like.

A professor from my alma mater (Rutgers University) named Dr. Peter Sandman has devoted his life to teaching the concept that Risk = Hazard + Outrage.

Basically: the actual Risk of something (like chemical usage, nuclear power, or letting females become Board Members :wink: ) is based not only on the actual hazard (chemical poisoning, radiation, etc), but on the emotional perception of that hazard.

That's why you can argue something logically, based on its scientific merits, and still lose the debate. People are thinking with their hearts, not their brains.

Dr. Sandman gives about a dozen examples on concepts that promote the perception of risk over safety in the article quoted above. For example, is the risk taken voluntarily, or are you coerced into taking it? There's a big difference in having someone grab you, tie two sticks to your feet, and throw you off a mountain, versus paying to go skiing. :o
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Postby Kellogg on Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:36 am

Thanks Hortmage!

That's a really cool article! Something to ponder today! :)

Scott
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