Going Batty...

Going Batty...

Postby Kellogg on Sun Nov 10, 2002 11:15 am

I was doing some (rather bad) sketches to try and get ideas on how to
draw bats. It's been a long time since I've drawn Veronica, and while
there is a very tiny bat in Monday's strip, I've still not got the hang of it.
Mainly because I can't seem to get the feet right.

Looking around for inspiration, my favorite anthropomorphic bat pic
is this one by Conrad Wong:
http://vcl.ctrl-c.liu.se/vcl/Artists/Co ... var-cw.jpg

But, with leather boots on, I don't see how she could possibly
hang from the ceiling.

So, anyone out there got any good pictures of the way bat legs
go...?

Thanks!

Scott
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Postby ZOMBIE USER 10915 on Sun Nov 10, 2002 11:43 am

You could always put on gravity boots :wink:
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Re: Going Batty...

Postby Batty den on Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:49 pm

Kellogg wrote:
So, anyone out there got any good pictures of the way bat legs
go...?

Thanks!



Real, genuine, right foot of an Southern Freetail Bat, Mormopterus planiceps.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~denbat/frank4.jpg

This one had a broken wing, and is one of the few bats with a broken wing to be rehabbed back to the wild. One expert said maybe 1 bat in 100 is that luck. Frank had a lot of things go right (except that he had a broken wing.)

Bat feet are wired backwards compared to other animals. They have to flex their muscles to let go

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Re: Going Batty...

Postby Kellogg on Sun Nov 10, 2002 3:22 pm



Interesting: It almost looks like it's got two thumbs...

Bat feet are wired backwards compared to other animals. They have to flex their muscles to let go


Hmm... I wonder how similar that is to bird talons:
In the talons of a bird, the tendons are notched like
a ratchet, so that the muscles can be relaxed and yet
maintain grip on a tree branch or prey.
(Very nasty should one get its talons into you.)

Is that how the bat foot works?

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Re: Going Batty...

Postby Batty den on Sun Nov 10, 2002 5:56 pm

Kellogg wrote:
Interesting: It almost looks like it's got two thumbs...



That's just that species. Others don't have that, or the furry feet. The feet of myotis look like little garden rakes which they use to trawl for and catch minnows.

Bat feet are wired backwards compared to other animals. They have to flex their muscles to let go


Hmm... I wonder how similar that is to bird talons:
In the talons of a bird, the tendons are notched like a ratchet, so that the muscles can be relaxed and yet maintain grip on a tree branch or prey. (Very nasty should one get its talons into you.)

Is that how the bat foot works?



No. Humans have to clench their leg muscles to make their toes curl under, but bats have to clench to open the toes straight. This, and their curled claws, lets them hang with no effort.

I've been in close proximity to raptor talons and it was very scary indeed. I helped to imp an eagle and the raptor rehabbers kept telling me horror stories of waiting for hours until the bird let go. The bird was not happy about us glueing feathers into the wings, and I was working inches from the feet and beak. That's a lot of sharp bits even if they are being held.
Story: http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml ... mid=141048
Photos: http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml ... mid=164251

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Postby Kellogg on Sun Nov 10, 2002 7:31 pm

Holy Cow... :o

Odd coincidence: I used to tutor a really nice Veteranary Student
in physics, (who's name now sadly escapes me. :( )

Really exceptionally nice fellow who showed me some of the re-hab
center they had for raptors. But his real passion was for bats.
He was known as Batman. :) We went up to one of the university
admin buildings which was a huge bat habitat. Really really cool.
Brown bats and Mexican free-tails.

He told me of a phone call they got from an Australian Zoo once.
Seems the Australians had some horribly sick animals and wanted
to talk to American vets who would be familiar with these strange
and exotic creatures:

White Tailed Deer. :o

By way of explanation: White-Tails are as common as weeds up
here and are viewed as something of a pest. A pretty pest, but
a pest, nevertheless. (My brother has to keep chasing them out
of his yard before they eat every tree he's got.)

Anyway, because they're so common up here, nobody really
studies them at all. Perhaps the best analogy would be Kangaroos
down in Australia. Sure, they're rare and exotic everywhere else
in the world, but they're ALL OVER down there. :lol:

Anyway, just a little story about how big the world is and how one
man's rare and exotic treat, is someone else's ho-hum.

All of which you may ignore, except this: I really admire the work
of wild life rehabilitators such as your good self. :)

Scott
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Postby Batty den on Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:15 am

Kellogg wrote:
Really exceptionally nice fellow who showed me some of the re-hab
center they had for raptors. But his real passion was for bats.
He was known as Batman. :) We went up to one of the university
admin buildings which was a huge bat habitat. Really really cool.
Brown bats and Mexican free-tails.



I would really, really like to get a job in a zoo, looking after their bats. I wonder if Steve Irwin has a position for a short, fat PC techo who knows bats.

He told me of a phone call they got from an Australian Zoo once.
Seems the Australians had some horribly sick animals and wanted
to talk to American vets who would be familiar with these strange
and exotic creatures:

White Tailed Deer. :o


It's funny what can be considered common or exotic. I have sugar gliders living in a tree in my back yard, and a bearded dragon suns itself on my back fence.

Once every few weeks I'm called on to remove an echidna from someone's garden. Echidnas are really common and ordinary, where "ordinary" refers to a spiney, burrowing, termite-eating, egg laying mammal that secretes milk from skin patches instead of teats. That sounds ordinary to me. :wink:


Anyway, just a little story about how big the world is and how one
man's rare and exotic treat, is someone else's ho-hum.


Very true! Last time I was in the UK I was taken to Whipsnade Zoo. My friend pointed suddenly "LOOK! KANGAROOS!" Oh, yeah... look at that. 10 roos. Wow, that's, like, half the number I see each week.

This drought is driving them into town for grass. Roos are not cute, cuddly animals to have around people.


All of which you may ignore, except this: I really admire the work
of wild life rehabilitators such as your good self. :)


It's not hard. Sign up today! :D

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Hmm... will ya look at that tracked vehicle in Panel 1 today... And Panel 2. Hmmm... ideas
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Postby Batty den on Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:21 am

Kellogg wrote:
Really exceptionally nice fellow who showed me some of the re-hab
center they had for raptors. But his real passion was for bats.
He was known as Batman. :) We went up to one of the university
admin buildings which was a huge bat habitat. Really really cool.
Brown bats and Mexican free-tails.



I would really, really like to get a job in a zoo, looking after their bats. I wonder if Steve Irwin has a position for a short, fat PC techo who knows bats.

He told me of a phone call they got from an Australian Zoo once.
Seems the Australians had some horribly sick animals and wanted
to talk to American vets who would be familiar with these strange
and exotic creatures:

White Tailed Deer. :o


It's funny what can be considered common or exotic. I have sugar gliders living in a tree in my back yard, and a bearded dragon suns itself on my back fence.

Once every few weeks I'm called on to remove an echidna from someone's garden. Echidnas are really common and ordinary, where "ordinary" refers to a spiney, burrowing, termite-eating, egg laying mammal that secretes milk from skin patches instead of teats. That sounds ordinary to me. :wink:


Anyway, just a little story about how big the world is and how one
man's rare and exotic treat, is someone else's ho-hum.


Very true! Last time I was in the UK I was taken to Whipsnade Zoo. My friend pointed suddenly "LOOK! KANGAROOS!" Oh, yeah... look at that. 10 roos. Wow, that's, like, half the number I see each week.

This drought is driving them into town for grass. Roos are not cute, cuddly animals to have around people.


All of which you may ignore, except this: I really admire the work
of wild life rehabilitators such as your good self. :)


It's not hard. Sign up today! :D

battyden

Hmm... will ya look at that tracked vehicle in Panel 1 today... And Panel 2. Hmmm... ideas
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Postby Kellogg on Mon Nov 11, 2002 6:02 am

batty den wrote:Hmm... will ya look at that tracked vehicle in Panel 1 today... And Panel 2. Hmmm... ideas


I have to say this, or my conscience will bother me:
Do your homework first. :oops:
(Sorry, it's just that I very much regret not applying myself
better in grad school. :( )

Still, on the subject of that vehicle, I should admit I was inspired
by this lil guy:
Image

Or these:
http://www.ufoseries.com/computerGraphi ... ntains.jpg
http://www.ufoseries.com/computerGraphi ... leLake.jpg
http://www.ufoseries.com/computerGraphi ... Battle.jpg

http://www.ufoseries.com/computerGraphi ... lePlan.jpg
http://www.ufoseries.com/blueprints/sgBlueMobile.jpg
And some additional shots here:
http://www.ufoseries.com/artofufo/index.html

Scott (Wishes he could remember more about grad school than old TV shows :wink: ) Kellogg
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Postby Batty den on Mon Nov 11, 2002 5:36 pm

Kellogg wrote:
(Sorry, it's just that I very much regret not applying myself
better in grad school. :( )



UFO! I remember watching this when I was a kid in the 70s. It was set so far in the future - 1989 from memory. Of course we'd have bases on the moon in 20 years. (we were ripped off!)

Gerry Anderson shows are very under-rated, and Space Precinct was the most under-rated of all!

Is that SID lurking in the background of the Sept.1 strip? :)

Still, on the subject of that vehicle, I should admit I was inspired
by this lil guy:
(pic snipt)


Let's see... rounded cube, with a GSC difference at the top and front, cab as a GSC intersection with a difference for the glass... NO! STOP IT! I'm supposed to be studying for exams!

Or these:


AAAgggh. must... not.. look.. ooh cool! Excellent references. thanks.

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Postby HugoFuchs on Mon Nov 11, 2002 6:23 pm

We don't called white-tails pests, we call them venison.

Bats are pretty cool, used to go spelunking quite a bit in my youth and quite a number of the caves hold bats, some year-round, other just in the winter.

'Roos are dangerous, now that's a plug for an anthropomorphic commando. :D
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Postby Kellogg on Mon Nov 11, 2002 7:06 pm

Batty: First off, I gotta say I love all the stuff you've done so far.
BUT: If you want to do more, I'll love it even more *AFTER* your
exams are done. Honest. I feel very strongly about stuff like this.
I'm... disappointed in myself for not working harder in grad school.
I'd hate to see that happen to someone else. :(

Okay...?

All that heavy stuff said...

batty den wrote:UFO! I remember watching this when I was a kid in the 70s. It was set so far in the future - 1989 from memory. Of course we'd have bases on the moon in 20 years. (we were ripped off!)

Gerry Anderson shows are very under-rated, and Space Precinct was the most under-rated of all!

Is that SID lurking in the background of the Sept.1 strip? :)


I love Gerry Anderson stuff. Recently aquired all the Thunderbirds
on DVD. Even loaned one to the Illustrious LevelHeaded one when
I visited out in California. :D

Design wise, it's very very well done stuff. Love his models.

UFO was supposed to take place in the far off amazing future age
of 1980. (sigh). The look of the show has contributed from time to
time to my design sence, and I do plead guilty to throwing in a
reference from time to time for a laugh. (This *is* a comic strip
after all!)

I gather that the UFO series is now out on DVD. I may have to
look for it. It's been many many years since I've seen it. :)

SID. I believe SID is in the background behind Tiffany's descendant
while she's doing satellite repair. :)

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Postby Batty den on Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:24 am

I knocked this up after the exam today. I still have to do runways, buildings, control towers, heavy lift vehicle, launch pad systems, and stuff like that.

Image

The airship is recycled from another model. Please dont ask what holds the track elements together.

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Postby Nebulous Rikulau on Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:54 am

batty den wrote:I knocked this up after the exam today. I still have to do runways, buildings, control towers, heavy lift vehicle, launch pad systems, and stuff like that.

(image removed to protect the bandwidth rainforests)

The airship is recycled from another model. Please dont ask what holds the track elements together.


Carbon nanotube 'Buckyfiber', that is too fine to be visible at the resolution of this image. :D
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Cultural food differences... nothing about bat feet, sorry

Postby Baxtrr on Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:55 am

Kellogg wrote:Anyway, just a little story about how big the world is and how one
man's rare and exotic treat, is someone else's ho-hum.


I always delight in the differences between what's common and what's not between the USA and other countries. A very dear Aussie friend of mine sent me a housewarming gift of a popular cookbook from down there, that she said would cover the basics of what every chef would need to know. It made for fascinating reading, with all sorts of recipes for bugs and yabbies but practically nothing on broccoli, which is apparently a very rare luxury there (or was, at the time).

Cadbury bars are another classic example. In America, Cadbury licenses to Hershey's, which is okay chocolate but no great shakes. As a result, Cadbury bars in this country are no better than any other chocolate. So it comes as a real shock when one tries the wide variety of Cadburys that you get in any shopfront in London, all of which beat hell out of American chocolate. And Australian Cadburys are mostly made in New Zealand, making them exquisitely wonderful in the quality of the chocolate (as good as Swiss, almost as good as Israeli) and the exotic ingredients they use (an American Fruit And Nut bar has peanuts and raisins in it; an Aussie Fruit And Nut has cashews and sultanas! YUMMY!!).

...aw, crap. Now I'm all hungry. :-?

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Postby Quill on Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:44 am

CRUNCHIE BARS!!! *Sighhh* Oh, for an import shop closer than an hour's drive away...

Can someone please, please explain the plot of UFO to me? I saw some eps on British TV and was thoroughly confused as they never provided any backstory. Fun to watch, but if they could catch the darn ships coming in from outside the Moon's orbit, why couldn't they catch them before they hit the ocean? And while it was nice to see women working in space, why are they all dressed so skimpily? never mind the hair... :D
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Postby Kellogg on Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:55 am

batty den wrote:I knocked this up after the exam today. I still have to do runways, buildings, control towers, heavy lift vehicle, launch pad systems, and stuff like that.


WOW! That's great work Batty! :D
This guy is just *amazing!* 8)

You ROCK! :D

The airship is recycled from another model. Please dont ask what holds the track elements together.


No fair! You and WhitePony are getting all secretive!
No fair! No Fair! :lol:

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UFO

Postby Kellogg on Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:33 am

Quill wrote:Can someone please, please explain the plot of UFO to me? I saw some eps on British TV and was thoroughly confused as they never provided any backstory. Fun to watch, but if they could catch the darn ships coming in from outside the Moon's orbit, why couldn't they catch them before they hit the ocean? And while it was nice to see women working in space, why are they all dressed so skimpily? never mind the hair... :D


UFO:
http://www.ufoseries.com/

The basic plot of UFO was that aliens were coming to Earth and
abducting people to be taken back to their planet and had their
minds taken over. The aliens would abduct new people to take
over their minds or to take their organs to support those already
taken to their planet.

SHADO (Supreme Headquarters Alien Defence Organization) was
the secret UN agency with orders to defend the Earth and fight
off the aliens.

The female Moonbase staff were attired in special uniforms for the
same military reason that Lt. Uhura and Yoeman Rand wore
miniskirts. I'm pretty sure WhitePony knows, but it's secret stuff
and he can't tell us. :wink:

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Re: Cultural food differences... nothing about bat feet, sor

Postby Batty den on Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:04 pm

baxtrr wrote:I always delight in the differences between what's common and what's not between the USA and other countries.

bax


Have you tried Tim Tams?

http://www.arnotts.com.au/Biscuits/OurB ... sp?BID=79#



:)

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Postby Batty den on Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:30 pm

HugoFuchs wrote:Bats are pretty cool, used to go spelunking quite a bit in my youth and quite a number of the caves hold bats, some year-round, other just in the winter.


Just being in the cave distrurbs bats, and that's not so good for them during hibernation. There's some caves in Wyoming (I think) National Parks has to close off during winter because the bat numbers dropped to dangerously low levels.

'Roos are dangerous, now that's a plug for an anthropomorphic commando. :D



Tell me about it. I wrote this in September 2001:
http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml ... emid=29834
(Language warning)

But they're not as dangerous as a wallaby.

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