Something for motorheads to drool over...

Something for motorheads to drool over...

Postby AirbornFox on Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:54 pm

Well, I have had em for awhile, just never bothered posting e, for those who wanna see em, here are some dyno results for the Chevelle. :)
http://abfox.net/dyno.JPG
Now, keep in mind all the problems she was having at the time of the dyno run.

1. The motor. Was fairly fresh with only about 900miles on it, so the driver took it somewhat easy as not to damage it.
2. Fuel. big problem. Was SOO bad, everyone standing behond the dyno had to depart due to the ammount of smoke (unburnt fuel) that poured out when the hammer was dropped.
(the edelbrock that was on her, despite several attempts by multiple wrenches could NOT be adjusted properly to please the engine, ended up replacing with a Holly 780 Street Avenger as per Mako's recomendation. thnx!)
3. Electrical. the ignition was a stock HEI setup, with the ballast resistor (I found out after, I didnt hook it up) providing the power.
4. Exhaust. A fairly bad exhaust leak was detected due to some warped header flanges. wasnt pretty.
5. Brakes. Yes brakes. the rear driver side brake was adjusted wrong, so every time it "auto adjusted", it tightened the brake even more. the wheel could not free spin, and took great effort to turn by hand.
So, expect some NEW results to be posted once I get her finished and can drag her to the dyno!
(Oh yeah, for those ppl who respond, here is a challenge for ya! place your bets on how much power will be gained from the time this was taken, and when I run her on the dyno in about a week or 2!)
Watching over you always,
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Postby Kellogg on Fri Oct 11, 2002 4:51 pm

Wow!

With all that, you still got to 286 horsepower? :o

Cool! 8)
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Postby ZOMBIE USER 10915 on Fri Oct 11, 2002 7:26 pm

COOL!

I'll guess 30 :-?
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Postby Mako on Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:32 pm

Sheepdog wrote:COOL!

I'll guess 30 :-?


Well given closed chambered heads, the mild cam and dual plane intake. I"ll wager 315HP at the rear wheels on a Dynojet is do-able.

Go to a full on roller and single plane intake, good exhaust (Mmm Cutouts, Mmm :) and 335 could happen.

15% drive train losses through a manual tranny is pretty much standard. If you could get the engine to be square (HP == displacement in cubic inches), a *very* attainable goal, you'd have: 400HP - 15% (60HP) = 340HP at the rear wheels.

Primary hold backs right now are the cam and un-ported heads. Note my 383 full roller cam setup made 488HP on the engine dyno. 488/383 == 1.26HP per cubic inch.

If you build that 400CI monster of yours to similar $pec$, your looking at 508HP and around 530 #/Ft. of Torque (BBC's make killa torque). Note you could really go whole hog and build it into a 600HP Rat o' Death 'n Doom too.

It all comes down to money. Speed cost$ money, how fast do you want to go? ;)

CYa!
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Postby AirbornFox on Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:23 am

Got my camera rdy to take both stills and video footage today. assuming everything has gone correctly yesterday afternoon and this morning, expect to see a (er, mebe the only in oklahoma) 66 Chevelle SS roaming the streets this afternoon. 8)
Gonna run it at the 1/4 bfore I dyno it just to make sure it dont grenade :o (doubt it, but u never know) under extreeme load. Will keep u all informed! :wink:
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Postby Kellogg on Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:28 pm

AirbornFox wrote:expect to see a (er, mebe the only in oklahoma) 66 Chevelle SS roaming the streets this afternoon. 8)


COOL! :D

Load up them pics! 8)

Scott
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Postby Mako on Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:42 pm

AirbornFox wrote:grenade :o (doubt it, but u never know) under extreme load. Will keep u all informed! :wink:


Excellent news ABF! I look forward to hearing how the dyno tuning effort goes and to seeing lots 'n lots of pics, including the welded up links on the axle if you can.

If possible, please start the dyno runs at 1200-1500RPM in 4th gear, I want to know what kind of grunt that engine has down low.

Please be sure you get a floppy disk copy of your runs, and zip up the files for me to DL.

Also, can you please post a copy (scan or photo) of the AFR vs RPM curve to your www too, I'm very interested in seeing that. Be sure to get a hard copy of the AFR curve, as there is a bug in the Dynojet viewer that messes the display of that curve up.

Tnx!
Mako

PS: Driving my Z28 in this cool weather is just a hoot - the rear tires break loose at anything much over 1/3 throttle, woohoo! =:-O
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Postby AirbornFox on Thu Nov 07, 2002 7:25 am

u got it mako!
make the unveiling today, got off work late yesterday and was unable to stop by the shop. I will go ahead and get those dyno results on disk 4 u.
The way the 1/4 track here runs is every friday test and tune. I wont run her 2morow, so it will havta run next friday.
BUT, i will get plenty o fun shots of her in the meantime. :)
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Postby Mako on Thu Nov 07, 2002 12:19 pm

AirbornFox wrote:u got it mako!
make the unveiling today, got off work late yesterday and was unable to stop by the shop. I will go ahead and get those dyno results on disk 4 u.
The way the 1/4 track here runs is every friday test and tune. I wont run her 2morow, so it will havta run next friday.
BUT, i will get plenty o fun shots of her in the meantime. :)


Killer, tnx!

Please please dyno tune the car with an O2 sensor before racing it. Stay out of the 5000+ RPM zone until then on the street too. I'd hate to see the engine go lean and burn a valve or punch a hole through a piston due to going lean.

Did you have the shop weld in an O2 sensor bung yet? Remember to have them install it in the exhaust system pipe behind the header flange. A leak free flange gasket is manditory for accurate readings. If air leaks into the system, the sensor will see that and erroniously tell you to add more fuel.

That fuel caveat aside, it's gotta be a wonderful feeling to have your ride back again, congrats!!!

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Postby AirbornFox on Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:39 pm

just finished talking to my mech and we r definitely on for this evening. gonna drive it over to an exhaust shop if they are not closed (good friend of kevins) to weld on the rear suspension,

add the dumps (I know, loss of back pressure and therefore low end torque, but would add a noticable improvement to the higher end),

and grind and weld on the O2 bung/sensor. (sorry, he doesnt have a welder that would supply a good weld on something that is going to be experiencing massive ammounts of torque)

I found a air/fuel ratio dash mounted monitor for $149 for on the fly readings, and was thinking about picking it up since I am throwing in the 02 sensor.

Oil filter has been replaced (finially!), and she is ready to rumble!!!

look forward to seeing a happy fox in a rat powered beast!
(mako, if the sizes of the video footage are uber huge, mind if I upload them via ftp to your server?)
Watching over you always,
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Postby Mako on Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:45 pm

AirbornFox wrote:just finished talking to my mech and we r definitely on for this evening. gonna drive it over to an exhaust shop if they are not closed (good friend of kevins) to weld on the rear suspension,

add the dumps (I know, loss of back pressure and therefore low end torque, but would add a noticable improvement to the higher end),

and grind and weld on the O2 bung/sensor. (sorry, he doesnt have a welder that would supply a good weld on something that is going to be experiencing massive ammounts of torque)

I found a air/fuel ratio dash mounted monitor for $149 for on the fly readings, and was thinking about picking it up since I am throwing in the 02 sensor.

Oil filter has been replaced (finially!), and she is ready to rumble!!!

look forward to seeing a happy fox in a rat powered beast!
(mako, if the sizes of the video footage are uber huge, mind if I upload them via ftp to your server?)


You won't notice the loss of low RPM torque at all, it'll probably help your 60' times too (less wheel spin). Hold off on the sensor kit until you have the car dyno tuned.

The O2 sensor kit will be useful to help dial the car in using small jet changes at the track. Other than that, it' just turns into a nice set of lights that you'll pretty much ignore on the street.

The ftp server is running for you and Scott, stuff anything you want that won't get me arrested there :)

Rock on Brother Fox!

CYa!
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Postby AirbornFox on Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:07 pm

please excuse me if I dont show much enthusiasm, as to what started out as an exciting evening unearthed a potentially serious problem.
Let me go out and bang my head against a solid brick wall for about 10min.
ok, I am back, and feeling a little better.
Scott, Mako, and whoever else wants, I took the liberty of uploading some video footage (2 out of 4 shots I took) to the upload section of caspeed.com. correct me if I am wrong, but the links should be
http://www.caspeed.com/uploads/P1010004.mov - video and sound of engine compartment, 8.11mg
http://www.caspeed.com/uploads/P1010005.mov -video and sound of the exhaust, cant really tell, but is running rich for now 6.81mg
If u notice on the 1st video (i apoligize for the poor audio quality) there is a "tap". Wasnt long till we found out why, and why I am not very happy at the moment.
twas an exhaust leak on the header flange. Now, I have tried every trick in the book and thensome to try to correct this. my wrench took it one step further and got some copper exhaust gaskets with crush seals. We thought, very happily, this would fix the problem. we even got some new header torque bolts to ensure that the headers were seated tightly against the head.
Needless to say, it FAILED. not just on 1 cylinder, but across multiple cylinders.
so, I not happy, because of the $$ it cost (receltny ceramic coated, with assurances that it would seal, but dang, not in writing)and the pain in the rear it is to work with those headers (not to mention the lack of headers that can truely bolt on to that engine w/o dimpling).
So, I have
A. a chevelle that is grounded till I get a new set of headers unless I want to get a new valve job...
and B. the expense of researching and purchasing a new set of headers that I am pleased with (ceramic coated a must, that BBC makes enough heat as is).
having said that, please exqueeze me while I go bang my head on the solid brick wall some more. oh yeah, anyone have a plasma cutter? I gonna have some fun with those headers... :evil:

On a good note thou, I am VERY pleased with the performance of the Holly SA, as to even with no tunage whatsoever (minus idle), revs were quick, throttle was crisp and responsive, and it just looks plain kewl.
Watching over you always,
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Postby Kellogg on Thu Nov 07, 2002 8:19 pm

Hey, Airborne,

I'm afraid the links to the mov files don't seem to be working. :-?

Sorry about the headers. :( Maybe Mako has some ideas, I hope?

AirbornFox wrote:On a good note thou, I am VERY pleased with the performance of the Holly SA, as to even with no tunage whatsoever (minus idle), revs were quick, throttle was crisp and responsive, and it just looks plain kewl.


Well, that's good news! Hope to see pics on your site soon! :)

Scott
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Postby Mako on Thu Nov 07, 2002 9:32 pm

Kellogg wrote:Hey, Airborne,

I'm afraid the links to the mov files don't seem to be working. :-?


Scott:
You have to log in with your user name and password. It's not an anymous ftp server (that would be inviting all sorts of chaos). Only you and ABF have a log in there.

A proper link for IE would be:

ftp://www.caspeed.com

Try that and see if it works for you. You should be prompted for your user name and password. If it doesn't:

Download ws_ftp and use that, as '98 is pretty pathetic in the ftp department. http://www.ipswitch.com/ will get you there. It supports dragon drop (what where you step! ;) )and is pretty darn simple.

Sorry about the headers. :( Maybe Mako has some ideas, I hope?


Either double up on a set of FelPro header gaskets or try a pair of the Earls Pressure Master graphite insert gaskets. Copper gaskets and street rods are an unproven combination in my experience.

AirbornFox wrote:On a good note thou, I am VERY pleased with the performance of the Holly SA, as to even with no tunage whatsoever (minus idle), revs were quick, throttle was crisp and responsive, and it just looks plain kewl.


FWIW, it sounds down right snarky on the .MOV :)) Debugging is a PIA, but if header flange sealing is the worse problem you have to solve, your doing pretty good.

CYa!
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Postby AirbornFox on Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:17 am

Either double up on a set of FelPro header gaskets or try a pair of the Earls Pressure Master graphite insert gaskets. Copper gaskets and street rods are an unproven combination in my experience.

Alas, double gasketing with the felpro's has been tried. havent messed with Earls Pressure Master's before (heck, dont think I even heard o them till now).
Wet soaking some cheapo paper gaskets(I was desperate, and they were cheap) failed, dbling up failed, dbling up with uber high temp silicon failed, and about a 1/2 dozen other weird and unusual ideas failed. I am sorry, but as I said, these headers are a lost cause.

I would also feel a tad bit better with a set of headers where I wont have to worry as much about as well.
I think I have a pic already (will hunt it down) that shows the header flange warped back in places.
in regards to replacing, was thinking of going with a set of Hooker Competitions (uber huge, 2x30, inexpensive, and according to hooker, should fit in nicely), ceramic coateded locally.
Not only this, but hopefully I can get to the spark plugs w/o unbolting the header from the block, will have an easire time installing em, have an 02 bung installed already, and they will look better. :)

Glad u like how she sounds, the mic on the camera doesnt really pick up that deep base throb that I looove so much, guess u will havta use your imagination on that. well I gotta run, c ya around[/quote]
Watching over you always,
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Postby Mako on Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:20 am

AirbornFox wrote:
Hooker Competitions (uber huge, 2x30, inexpensive, and according to hooker, should fit in nicely), ceramic coateded locally.

Not only this, but hopefully I can get to the spark plugs w/o unbolting the header from the block, will have an easire time installing em, have an 02 bung installed already, and they will look better. :)

Glad u like how she sounds, the mic on the camera doesnt really pick up that deep base throb that I looove so much, guess u will havta use your imagination on that. well I gotta run, c ya around


Ok, here's my lessons learned after going through 4(!) sets of headers on the Vette:

Never order coated headers. Instead get the pipes plain, then install them and perform all the fitting and exhaust fabication work First.

Only after fitting and testing them do you send them out for coating. Be sure you get plugs for the O2 bungs since you'll not be running O2 sensors in both pipes on the street.

I feel your pain there ABF :( The rest of the car seems to be working pretty nicely though :D

CYa!
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