Tom Mazanec wrote:The book of Numbers gives the a count of Levite males a month and older by three clans or houses.
Verse 22 7500
Verse 28 8600
Verse 34 6200
Then a total is given in Verse 39 as 22000. But these numbers total 22300!
And if you say it is a scribe's error, than how can I trust anything in the Bible that we have today?
Tom Mazanec wrote:Here is another I came across:
Ezra 1 9-11.
Items enumerated: 30+1029+30+410+1000=2499
Total given: 5400.
Kerry Skydancer wrote:Not to mention 'where the heck did the water come from and vanish to?'
Kerry Skydancer wrote:It's not like the ancient scribes had cross-check sums.
Or the Noah's Flood tale, which flies in the face of biology (several times over), ecology, chemistry, physics, geology, meteorology, marine engineering, and animal husbandry. Not to mention 'where the heck did the water come from and vanish to?'
RHJunior wrote:I'm assuming your argument is "oh the ark would never hold all those animals" for ecology or marine engineering....
My first question is "how large do you think the Ark was?"
Followed shortly by "how many animals do you think Noah took on that ark?"
The JAM wrote: [...unWARP!!!]
The JAM wrote:Again, do you want me to go into an explanation of continental drift? You'll probably hate me if I do.
The JAM wrote:Genetic diversity wasn't a problem. Creation had happened only 1,600 years earlier, and with the water canopy above the Earth protecting the biosphere, UV rays could not get through to damage DNA. However, it seems that Noah, when he brought in the cheetah, he brought in twin brother and sister, instead of two from unrelated families.
An adult elephant is huge. A baby elephant isn't. And baby animals normally get along with other baby animals.
The JAM wrote:How many animals? I already gave an answer to that.
The JAM wrote:Yes, it speaks out against incest. Incest was impossible to avoid during the first generations, but given that their DNA was practically perfect, inbreeding was impossible. Also, Noah's sons had wives of their own.
Axelgear wrote:After this time, then take the apple seeds and plant them, and see if anything grows. Will it? The answer is, of course, no.
Axelgear wrote:If continental drift worked at the rate you suggest it supposedly did, it'd mean there'd be Jaguars in Israel anyway, for starters, and second, it'd mean that today the continents would be shifting so fast they'd be crashing together EVERY FEW YEARS. And don't say "They slowed down", as it'd still mean they'd be crashing together back then as well. I don't recall Moses having to wear cleats to keep himself from getting tossed about.
Moshe Bar Amram wrote:And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided.
Axelgear wrote:If DNA wasn't, as you say, damaged, at this point, that would mean Adam and Eve's children would be perfect clones, now wouldn't they? Therefore, by this point, there would be no Mongoloid, Caucasian, or Africanized peoples. Unless, of course, you explain this by evolution, which you claim against, it just doesn't happen.
Axelgear wrote:Also, baby animals thing, that means Noah went around killing animals to steal their babies. Once again, doesn't seem like a very nice thing to do.
Axelgear wrote:Restate, please.
It's likely that individual species were not represented in the ark, but rather, either a Family or Genus representative: i.e., a wolf pair for all canids, and then, a pair of wolf cubs.
Axelgear wrote:But then there'd be, once again, a limited combination of features. And if they had wives, descendants of Adam and Eve, they'd be clones. No DNA diversity, no change, no difference in features. But then, if incest was wrong, why would God put people in a situation that He would allow it to happen in?
The JAM wrote:This is true for all seeds of all species for all combinations of salt water?
The JAM wrote:For starters, I haven't suggested a single number for this, but if you insist:
According to the US Geologic survey ( http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/histor ... hor4833509 ) Pangea began to split 200 million years ago. Also according to them, not every plate boundary moves at the same rate, and it varies from 2.5 cm/year to 15 cm/year http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/unders ... hor6715825.
Can we agree that the continents drift rate is not constant?
Given the geological upheaval of Noah's day, it took a bit for things to settle down, but, according to the Bible, the continents had already split a considerable distance. Some 130 years after Noah, in the days of Peleg, this was noticeable:
The JAM wrote:I believe there is a difference between perfect DNA, cloned DNA, and damaged DNA. Perfect DNA does not exclude variations, but it does exclude birth defects, being prone to diseases or degenerative syndromes, etc.
The JAM wrote:Point is irrelevant. I COULD say that animals did not become wild until after the Flood (Genesis 9) and so Noah had no problems bringing them in, but we'd just go around in circles with this point.
The JAM wrote:It's likely that individual species were not represented in the ark, but rather, either a Family or Genus representative: i.e., a wolf pair for all canids, and then, a pair of wolf cubs.
Stating once again, given the relative perfection of early DNA, genetic diversity was possible for a pair of wolves to bring forth all Canis species today. Note, however, that the canids were the final stop. There wasn't another animal that brought forth the wolves or any other canid.
The JAM wrote:Once again, perfect DNA allows for a great range of diversity within one species (if it were biologically possible, a pair of humans could theoretically have 2^23 = 8,388,608 non-twin/triplet offspring and they would all be genetically different from one another but still remaining as human beings)
Once the Second Law of Thermodynamics got a stronger hold of DNA, defects began to increase exponentially, and thus the law against incest was introduced.
The JAM wrote:Or, to make things easier for everyone here, you could simply say "Noah's Flood is not a historical/worldwide event", we (or I, at least) would respect your opinion, and let it go at that.
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