We want Ralph back!

do you want Ralph to be the forum admin again?

yes
20
47%
no
23
53%
 
Total votes: 43

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Shyal_malkes
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We want Ralph back!

Post by Shyal_malkes »

my bad, I meant forum moderator! not admin.
I still say the doctor did it....

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Tom Mazanec
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Post by Tom Mazanec »

I reluctantly voted against Ralph. I think one of the people STrRedWolf mentioned (including himself) would be better at moderating the forum. Ralph is just too crabby and stubborn (great world-creator, though). I hope the new moderator is more of a "agree to disagree" type than a "so there!" type. Of course, he would have to deal with people who are genuine trolls and with flame wars in a responsible fashion, too.
shyal_malkes
As originator of the thread, I think you can edit the title.
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Xellas
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Post by Xellas »

I remember a while back that I left the forums entirely after a rather lively debate got me a chewing out from RH. Honestly, while he's a good guy and all, moderators have to have an exceptional amount of patience to do a good job, and I just don't see that in Ralph. So I'm voting no.
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
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Aurrin
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Post by Aurrin »

I think that last little rant of his summarizes the reasons why he isn't fit for the role.

I'm sorry, I hate to vote against him when this forum is dedicated to his own work. I know I'd hate to be in that position myself. But enough is enough.
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Tom Mazanec
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Post by Tom Mazanec »

Allow me to point out that this poll is probably biased in favor of Ralph. It is my guess that those displeased with a forum may be more likely to vote on a poll. But after awhile they vote with their feet and leave. This is a poll of the "survivors" of the tangent Ralph has gone off on in the last few weeks, and the "malcontents" are likely to be those who are upset with his loss of moderatorship.
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Detrius
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Re: We want Ralph back!

Post by Detrius »

shyal_malkes wrote:my bad, I meant forum moderator! not admin.
Bad polling, you forgot "I don't care" and "I like pie".
Secularism: keeping politics out of religion.

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Axelgear
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Post by Axelgear »

Personally, I think Ralph is a bit too hot-tempered to be a Moderator. A Mod is meant to be impartial, but he's kinda proven to be anything but. In fact, he makes it a point of honor that he isn't.
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Post by Skull »

Voted "No".

And before anyone asks, since I was one of those referred to as a "troll", no, I didn't complain. I'm sure Stredwolf can concur.

But it was painfully clear Mr. Hayes was overstepping both forum rules and simple forum etiquette in selectively editing, locking or deleting anything that was remotely critical of him or his views. I'm in no way surprised by this turn of events.

I'll be happy to discuss any of the suggestions I brought up earlier, if anyone is interested, now that the conversation might actually continue past half a page.

~fin.

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Post by Tom Mazanec »

What did you expect from this, BTW? A resounding vote for Ralph? That does not seem to be happening. And even if it had, what did you expect from that? The administrator to go "Gadzooks, I have done Ralph a grave injustice! I must make ammends and promote him back to moderator, nay, a fellow administrator!" Or would "So Ralph is getting shyal_malkes to fight his battles for him, eh? I'll just ban him from even posting! THAT will show him!" Knowing human nature, I know which I would bet on.
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Shyal_malkes
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Post by Shyal_malkes »

the topics wherein you refer to Ralph as abusing his power must have been topics I have had no interrest in.

therefore I have seen no examples wherein I would believe that Ralph was misusing his power.

therefore it would (from my P.O.V.) come as a great shock that Ralph would be ousted from being forum moderator.

and since it was complaints that got him ousted, it would only make sense that if a resounding vote for Ralph as moderator did in fact occur then the admin could only expect even more complaints if he/she did not put in someone we agree with.

that you insinuate that I want to be Ralph's lap dog or anything is, insluting. I am a fan of Ralph, and as I stated found nothing that I believe was a misuse of power. but then again, maybe it's because there are some topics that I avoid anyway.

I find it odd. here I get accused of being a psycophant and in my haste end up acting just like one anyway. perhaps I was too hasty but it's a little late now and I might as well let the topic stay.

not that it'll improve my reputation any but hey, why not have my online rep match my RL one, heck maybe I'll have it match my personal opinion of myself and REALLY drag it through the mud.

and I honsetly did think that Ralph would have more support then this too.

thanks a lot guys.
I still say the doctor did it....

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Post by Tom Mazanec »

Fully aware I am violating my penance by posting Fri morning, it is not MY insinuation, it is how it would look to the ADMINISTRATOR. Goodbye for 24 hours.
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Mutant for Hire
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Post by Mutant for Hire »

To be perfectly honest, I'm not at all shocked at this. I was rather shocked to see threads that RHJunior was locking because he didn't like what people were saying. This was a bit different from my personal experience with other forums run by saner people who only lock down threads due to bad language, personal insults and even the occasional threat of one sort or another.

I am reminded of the saying, "as you sow, so shall you reap", as well as the classic "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Both sayings seem rather apt. Yes, there are people on this forum who have posted hostile, inflammatory comments designed to raise a response. Unfortunately, RHJunior himself was one of those people. And his comment about not being fair and running the forum as he saw fit was promptly applied to him.

RHJunior has a lot of problems making a living as a webcomic. Unfortunately, I have a difficult time seeing how he isn't the root cause of most of them. His problems as being a moderator are a case in point. This is the first time I've ever seen a webcomic creator actually removed as a mod from his own forum. Some may try to blame the trollish behavior of others, but in the end, it was RHJunior himself who locked the threads, no one else.

I hope that RHJunior will learn the right lessons from this, that it is wrong to simply lock down threads where people say things you disagree with, that one should handle the power of a moderator, as all power, carefully and responsibly and as sparing as possible, and it is better to ignore people who say things you dislike than to try to suppress them. However I'm not holding my breath for that.

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Post by Xellas »

http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=78424

If i'm not mistaken, this is the exact thread that led to his ban. If I'm wrong, someone better informed please correct me. In any case, even if it isn't, that thread is an excellent showcase of why NOT to let RHJ be a moderator here. If he is not willing to even allow opinions that clash with his to be voiced, then he has NO buisness being a moderator. While he may disagree with them and even argue his case against them, he has no right to arbitrarally silence whoever doesn't toe the line of what he thinks is correct. Deletes should be used only in cases where flamewars are getting out of hand or serious rules laid down for orderly operation have been violated, not because something was said that you can't disprove and disagree with.
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
John 8:7

How great would the world be if we REALLY practiced that?

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Post by Skull »

Possible. Mr. Hayes deleted at least two of my posts in that thread. But he deleted at least one other thread that I had posted in, in it's entirety, and at least one other still, that I did not.

It was my impression that the ban was not due to any one particular thread, but a series of them, coupled with similar activities in the past.

~fin.

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Post by Axelgear »

Wow, a 50/50 split...

I'm surprised though. I'm betting the votes for are the people with the same views as Ralph, while the against are those with differing views or the willingness to hear others.
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Aurrin
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Post by Aurrin »

shyal_malkes wrote:therefore I have seen no examples wherein I would believe that Ralph was misusing his power.
That's the fundamental disagreement, and it looks like this forum is about 50/50 split on the issue: must a moderator be impartial to viewpoint? If you agree, then it was a flagrant abuse, as Ralph blatantly used moderator powers to suppress opposing viewpoints and rebuttal. If you disagree, then you see only 'a parent spanking a naughty child'.

Personally, I do see it as an abuse. It wouldn't be if Ralph had not pushed politics into his comic. But since he makes it a badge of honor to do so, he must then be ready to accept political discussion in his forum, including discussion that he doesn't like. If you can't stand the thought that you might not be right or always win, don't issue an open challenge to the world for debate.

Ultimately, this falls as a decision to the board admin, and he has decided that it is not acceptable. Though, ironically, one could also make an argument that it was fair no matter which way you believe. Because if you agree that it's okay for a mod to impose arbitrary, unfair rules on the users, then it's also okay for the admin to do the same, with or without provocation.
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Post by Deckard Canine »

Aurrin wrote:If you disagree, then you see only 'a parent spanking a naughty child'.
Which, these days, is considered cause for intervention. But perhaps that's a discussion for another time.

I abstained from voting. Does that make me unpopular with voters on both sides?

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Post by BrockthePaine »

Deckard Canine wrote:
Aurrin wrote:If you disagree, then you see only 'a parent spanking a naughty child'.
Which, these days, is considered cause for intervention. But perhaps that's a discussion for another time.

I abstained from voting. Does that make me unpopular with voters on both sides?
Nope. Really, there should have been an "I don't care" option as well...
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Post by Shyal_malkes »

my bad, I was tired, angry, in a rush, and thinking about too much stuff at one time to think anything through completely
I still say the doctor did it....

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Post by Tom Mazanec »

If I were the moderator, I would have made my arguments but not shut down the thread. At some point, if the opponents were just repeating the same arguments, I would refute each one by number and then said "see point #3", or something like that. Or just shut up and let the thread die.
Note: do not nominate me as moderator. Besides the fact that I have more than enough worries on my plate at this point in my life, I would not make a good moderator (it is possible to say that someone is a poor cook while not being able to cook yourself, for example). I would probably err in the other direction and let trolls and flamewars proliferate.
BTW, interesting to see the discussion of this topic on the other two forums. For example, I did not realize why Ralph's deletions were one of the reasons the administrators were bothered by him. Each large deletion causes several minutes of downtime, as the search database has to be "fixed" word by word. If someone tries to post during this time, they get a server error and keep trying. Then there are multiple posts and often more deletions. This has happened to me before, I just did not realize why. It is interesting to see how other fans of Ralph are reacting.
It is especially pertinent that the admin pointed out this little known fact of the forums:
The forums are a dictatorship, they are not a democracy, so it matters not a neutrino WHAT the vote here would have been. All humans on the forum are here by privilege, not right. The server owner (Keenspot IIRC) is God. Administrators outrank moderators. An administrator is responsible for telling a moderator how to run the forum. There are certain guidelines for locking a thread. Disagreeing with the moderator in a controversial thread is NOT one of them, for example. Threatening people in RL is one of them (if I understand the N&T thread correctly). Someone complained that Ralph abused his privilege. The administrator investigated the complaint (this is likely the only practical way an administrator can function...try a search function and scroll down the list of fora...it is a LONG list) and considered it verified. It is verification, not volume of complaints that decide whether an administrator acts. The administrator warned Ralph. Ralph continued to act contrary to the warning. So the administrator "fired" him (PLEASE, admins, forgive and correct me if I am getting this wrong).
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