What other races would you like to see?

What other races would you like to see?

Postby Tom Mazanec on Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:40 am

As I said on another thread, I would like to see goblins. Most of the other "races" are yuck (ghouls), beyond yuck (ogres), way beyond yuck (vampires) or WAY beyond yuck (dragons). We have already seen gragum and bogeymen. Trolls are little more than fungoid tree apes (I wonder if they count as a race or a "monster" like a basilisk...wonder about dragons as well). Greta is right about the fey folk, even if she is wrong about our Quentyn. Leprechauns may be good, but are as rarely seen as the white stag (of course, this happened to Q...not only this but he was kissed and spoken to, as rare as getting hit by a meteor). A leprechaun would make a lifelong friend (or enemy in the case of a faux paux, although Q's stag kiss might help).
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Postby Dapple on Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:47 am

Mini Dragon Mini Dragon Drake.
RH gotta see the Dwarvs.
Umm Maybe drangrous wolf morphs. Ware wolfies.
How about something really cute that turns out to be very dangerous.
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Postby Tom Mazanec on Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:53 am

Forgot about the Dwarves. They are rare too, but it would be good to find out why they cut off trade with the Racconnan. There is a kind of toad that spits fire, and a kind of dog that does too. Nothing like your other ideas on the CDs, but they might turn up anyway...up to Ralph.
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Postby BrockthePaine on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:08 am

Why are the dragons "WAY beyond yuck"?
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Postby Deckard Canine on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:16 am

Yeah, I dunno about the order of those yucks, Tom. Aren't ghouls essentially zombies? You don't get much more yuck than that.

If I hunker down and write a high fantasy, it will not have dwarves, partly because I find them dull and partly out of deference to people with dwarfism. But RHJ might have something worthwhile in store involving dwarves.

Leprechauns? Too strongly associated with one culture. Same with genies and banshees.
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Postby BrockthePaine on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:35 am

Deckard Canine wrote:If I hunker down and write a high fantasy, it will not have dwarves, partly because I find them dull and partly out of deference to people with dwarfism.

That's the problem of the standard tropes, really - everybody follows Tolkien. Nobody ever asks what it's like from the POV of the dwarves. They're always gruff, supposedly; always carry axes, and live in hollowed-out mountains, and wear big beards. Phooey. When I get around to writing dwarves into fantasy, the dwarves will be seriously bad@$$es.
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Postby Tom Mazanec on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:49 am

I am using my evaluation of Ralph's description of the races on the CDs.
I am in a bit of a situation here, as this is meant primarily for those who have the CDs, and as a way of inducing those who do not have them to get them. Ralph has a LOT of additional Questorverse material on the CDs, and he does his own take on the "Tolkien tropes" (like "immortal elves").
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Postby Deckard Canine on Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:53 am

BrockthePaine wrote:That's the problem of the standard tropes, really - everybody follows Tolkien. Nobody ever asks what it's like from the POV of the dwarves. They're always gruff, supposedly; always carry axes, and live in hollowed-out mountains, and wear big beards. Phooey.


I do kinda like it when people use the same term for markedly different fantasy creatures. The "trolls" I've seen have little universal commonality. As for dwarves, the guys who wrote and drew the Gnomes series said that dwarves, unlike gnomes, do not have beards.

BrockthePaine wrote:When I get around to writing dwarves into fantasy, the dwarves will be seriously bad@$$es.


You do that. Unfortunately, it's not just their usual culture and behavior that bore me; it's the minimality of their physical difference from humans. So they're short with thick beards; big deal.
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Postby Tom Mazanec on Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:56 am

They are short, too. And the stereotype can always cut their beards. But Ralph's Dwarves are different.
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Postby Earl McClaw on Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:08 pm

I'm of a mind to write something where "elves" are basically black... and I don't mean D&D's drow, either. Still, it'd be interesting to see the various races and creaturs Ralph has populated his world with.

One thing that occurs to me is that even with rare (yet powerful) human wizards, they will at times attempt to create "servant races". While this might be the origin of some of the "demi-human" races, it might also produce any number of other races, including - just for the contrast - anthro raccoons that aren't Rac Conan. If there were enough viable "animan" races, there might even be "furry" ghettos in some areas.
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Postby Siirenias on Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:11 pm

Actually, fairies are already in. They're mysterious planar travelers.

I really like the idea of ghouls; maybe not in the ordinary sense, but like an under appreciated race like the Gragum.

I would imagine that most races of the more mysterious persuasion have hidden themselves, kind of like the Racconan. However, it would be rather interesting to see some other intelligent race that went about using Lux in a different way than Q is used to. I think a "Dwarf-like" race would be convenient for this. I don't know why short people and "magic" go together so well. It's just a winning combination, I guess.
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Postby Tom Mazanec on Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:44 pm

Siirenias
That sounds like GURPS ghouls.
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Postby Siirenias on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:37 pm

GURPS sounds like a cool onomonopia. Um...what is GURPS?
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Postby Wanderwolf on Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:11 am

Siirenias wrote:GURPS sounds like a cool onomonopia. Um...what is GURPS?


Generic
Universal
Role
Playing
System

It was supposed to get a cooler name at launch, but the people at Steve Jackson Games were used to calling it GURPS.

The best ghoul-race I ever saw was in Ringworld, by Larry Niven. The Ghouls were a jackal-ish race on the Ringworld, and a necessary part of the ecosystem; the Ringworld's layer of soil was too shallow for graves, and the artifical ecosystem didn't have most of the needed carrion-decompers. Therefore, the Eaters served a valuable function in keeping dead bodies from turning into rotting disease-factories. (They were also the most open, friendly people around, and always willing to share information. Hey, they get to meat everyone, eventually... ouch, bad typo, BAD typo...)

As for dwarves, of course they're always gruff. They're mighty warriors, excellent smiths, renowned for their ferocity in battle... and yet the taller races all seem to think they're so important. That's why the axe, y'know... one good swing, you cut them off at the kneecaps.

The race I think gets too short a shrift is gnolls. 7'6" walking, hyena-headed, digitigrade appetites, with a social system based on the leisure class: The higher you are in the gnoll society, the less you actually do. The lower you are, the more you do. (Which is why gnolls have slaves; workforce and food supply in one.) The potential of a gnoll society is incredible, and yet nobody ever uses them for anything but cannon fodder. (Flippy Darkpaw, anyone?)

The semi-race I think gets short-shrifted is lycanthropes. Thousands of legends, tales and myths to borrow from, magic systems the world around... and yet all werewolves get based on Lon Chaney, Jr. :ick: Werebears do all right, since Tolkien liked them and wrote in a good one. Weretigers? In India, they can be divine retribution, but in most fantasy systems they get mixed with India's rakshasas. Wererats? Original to the games, unless you count an occasional shapeshift by a witch. (By which standard, there should also be wererabbits and werecats.)

Just dropping my two pennies into the fountain...

Yours truly,

The wolfish,

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Postby Siirenias on Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:16 am

Why, I never thought I'd see Larry Niven mentioned. I think I read a clever book of his in the science fiction genre. It's 2AM, so I might be wrong.

Anyway...thanks for the info. I think I'll go lay down though...
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Postby Wanderwolf on Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:25 am

Siirenias wrote:Why, I never thought I'd see Larry Niven mentioned. I think I read a clever book of his in the science fiction genre. It's 2AM, so I might be wrong.

Anyway...thanks for the info. I think I'll go lay down though...


When you get back, please note I goofed the title: The Ghouls originated in Ringworld Engineers.
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Postby Earl McClaw on Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:40 pm

Wanderwolf wrote:The potential of a gnoll society is incredible, and yet nobody ever uses them for anything but cannon fodder. (Flippy Darkpaw, anyone?)
That's probably because IIRC they originated in D&D. Copyright and all that.

Wanderwolf wrote:The semi-race I think gets short-shrifted is lycanthropes. ... Wererats? Original to the games, unless you count an occasional shapeshift by a witch.
Weren't there wererats in the Fafherd and the Grey Mouser stories?
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Postby Wanderwolf on Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:03 am

Earl McClaw wrote:
Wanderwolf wrote:The potential of a gnoll society is incredible, and yet nobody ever uses them for anything but cannon fodder. (Flippy Darkpaw, anyone?)
That's probably because IIRC they originated in D&D. Copyright and all that.


Actually, since a lot of concepts in the game were originated from Tolkien, who borrowed heavily from myth, most of the monsters in D&D aren't under copyright.

Wikipedia states that gnolls bear a strong resemblance to the hyena-demons of the Bible (apparently the word is somewhat confused in translation, and means "deinizens of the desert"), the werehyenas of African folklore, and the Cynocephales (dogheaded folk) of medieval bestiaries. The man-eating appears to be a borrow from Lord Dunsany: Specifically, from How Nuth would have practised his art upon the gnoles.

Earl McClaw wrote:
Wanderwolf wrote:The semi-race I think gets short-shrifted is lycanthropes. ... Wererats? Original to the games, unless you count an occasional shapeshift by a witch.
Weren't there wererats in the Fafherd and the Grey Mouser stories?


Huh?

(Google Google Google...)

Huh. You're absolutely right. According to an old article on sword and sorcery lit, now filed on planetadnd.com, wererats originated in "The Swords of Lankhmar".

(bow) Thank you for the correction. I apologize for my inaccuracy.

Yours truly,

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Postby Earl McClaw on Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:27 pm

Wanderwolf wrote:(bow) Thank you for the correction. I apologize for my inaccuracy.

Not inaccurate, just something you didn't know. I suffer from the same malady myself quite often. And you're welcome. That's the joy of sharing on a forum.

As for gnolls, D&D borrowed from all over, often with a lot of inaccuracies against the original sources. (E.g."Medusa" and "Pegasus" were unique individuals, not a type of creature.) Then the company compounded it by going copyright-happy with their versions of things. I wouldn't be at all surprised if their lawyers had sent letters out.

Ralph might use them anyway, but aside from such staples as elves, gnomes, dwarves, dragons, etc., I have to wonder how many of the less well known races he'd bother to include. Or how much they'd resemble their known descriptions if he did.
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