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maybe she wanted Quentyn to follow Rahan and allow him to soak in all the 'pity' he could get.

btw, isn't an emetic something that sobers you up or negates the effects of alcohol? (I ask because as a non drinker I wouldn't know but to me such a thing would make sense.)

shyal_malkes wrote:maybe she wanted Quentyn to follow Rahan and allow him to soak in all the 'pity' he could get.

btw, isn't an emetic something that sobers you up or negates the effects of alcohol? (I ask because as a non drinker I wouldn't know but to me such a thing would make sense.)

Not exactly

shyal_malkes wrote:maybe she wanted Quentyn to follow Rahan and allow him to soak in all the 'pity' he could get.

btw, isn't an emetic something that sobers you up or negates the effects of alcohol? (I ask because as a non drinker I wouldn't know but to me such a thing would make sense.)

Think 'syrup of Ipecac'

I'm with the notion of Kess reminding Quentyn that not everything that happens is his fault and thus he doesn't have to feel quilty over a jerk falling out of a tree in a drunken stupor.

well, it that's what an emetic does my other statement may have more value as well. Rahan is going through a rather unpleasant experience and could use someone as a real friend.

shyal_malkes wrote:well, it that's what an emetic does my other statement may have more value as well. Rahan is going through a rather unpleasant experience and could use someone as a real friend.

Unpleasant? You mean like driving the porcelain bus? He brought it on himself.

porcelain bus? I know of no such bus?

but I pity Rahan and I would like to think that things might turn out better if he saw quentyn pity him a bit.

or if not that, have him see quentyn act like his friend.

An emetic is a medicine that induces vomiting. It's a handy (If unpleasent) way to get alcohol out of someone's body if they're very drunk.

Like. It's a Sober Up pill that also punches you in the gut repeatedly for ten minutes.

Sounds like just the thing then!

exactly! Rahan's going to need a friend.

Sableneko wrote:An emetic is a medicine that induces vomiting. It's a handy (If unpleasent) way to get alcohol out of someone's body if they're very drunk.

Like. It's a Sober Up pill that also punches you in the gut repeatedly for ten minutes.

No. it would only purge the alcohol that is in the stomach. If someone is drunk, the alcohol has already gotten into the bloodstream and will have to be processed out of the system by time.

shyal_malkes wrote:porcelain bus? I know of no such bus?

but I pity Rahan and I would like to think that things might turn out better if he saw quentyn pity him a bit.

or if not that, have him see quentyn act like his friend.

If you go to the toilet and look, you'll find one.

Rahan seeing Quentyn pity him would be entirely the wrong thing. Rahan has told them in no uncertain terms how he despised Quentyn as a helpless weakling. To be pitied by that same weaking would infuriate Rahan even more.

Squeaky Bunny wrote: No. it would only purge the alcohol that is in the stomach. If someone is drunk, the alcohol has already gotten into the bloodstream and will have to be processed out of the system by time.

The alcohol his body has managed to process, yes...
But I bet that a lot of it is still in his stomach, and getting rid of that will at least stop him from getting much worse...
(Though, he might not agree on that afterwards...)

Besides, we don't know exactly HOW advanced their medical science is, and when you look at what people considers a 'hangover remedy' today...
(Raw eggs and tomatojuice... sometimes even with the shell... drinking even more alcohol... )

Anthony Lion wrote:

Squeaky Bunny wrote: No. it would only purge the alcohol that is in the stomach. If someone is drunk, the alcohol has already gotten into the bloodstream and will have to be processed out of the system by time.

The alcohol his body has managed to process, yes...
But I bet that a lot of it is still in his stomach, and getting rid of that will at least stop him from getting much worse...
(Though, he might not agree on that afterwards...)

Besides, we don't know exactly HOW advanced their medical science is, and when you look at what people considers a 'hangover remedy' today...
(Raw eggs and tomatojuice... sometimes even with the shell... drinking even more alcohol... )

Alcohol is absorbed very quickly into the bloodstream so by the time Rahan appeared inebriated, most was likely already absorbed by the stomach and intestines. Es muy borracho, Si?

Now if only it were Akvavit . . .

Squeaky Bunny wrote:Alcohol is absorbed very quickly into the bloodstream so by the time Rahan appeared inebriated, most was likely already absorbed by the stomach and intestines.

Except that Rahan was still drinking, so he's got a lot more tipple in him than what made him topple.

I've got to go with Sableneko on reading this one. Quentyn didn't ask to be pitied. He didn't try to cause trouble or fail to live up to others' expectations. He didn't try to have Rahan hate him, and he certainly didn't make Rahan climb a tree, get drunk, and fall out. He pitched in to help (okay, so we didn't see him help Rahan directly, but his response was perfectly correct and already started when Kes mentioned it), and he kept out of the way when more qualified people turned up. He also didn't lie to the guardsman or say anything to get Rahan in more trouble.

So chin up, Questor. You've taken the hard road and treated someone who despises you fairly and with compassion. You've done nothing to be ashamed of.

Earl McClaw wrote:

Squeaky Bunny wrote:Alcohol is absorbed very quickly into the bloodstream so by the time Rahan appeared inebriated, most was likely already absorbed by the stomach and intestines.

Except that Rahan was still drinking, so he's got a lot more tipple in him than what made him topple.

Agreed, but giving his stomach contents the ol' heave ho won't sober him up any faster. It will stop further absorption so he will start drying out from that moment on. It also won't do anything for the ketones that will give him whatever hangover he gets on the 'morrow.

I've got to go with Sableneko on reading this one. Quentyn didn't ask to be pitied. He didn't try to cause trouble or fail to live up to others' expectations. He didn't try to have Rahan hate him, and he certainly didn't make Rahan climb a tree, get drunk, and fall out. He pitched in to help (okay, so we didn't see him help Rahan directly, but his response was perfectly correct and already started when Kes mentioned it), and he kept out of the way when more qualified people turned up. He also didn't lie to the guardsman or say anything to get Rahan in more trouble.

So chin up, Questor. You've taken the hard road and treated someone who despises you fairly and with compassion. You've done nothing to be ashamed of.

On further thought, I think she put some stars over his head because he hadn't done anything wrong, and he was starting to get that embarrased look again...I'm with with you guys.

Earl McClaw wrote:I've got to go with Sableneko on reading this one. Quentyn didn't ask to be pitied. He didn't try to cause trouble or fail to live up to others' expectations. He didn't try to have Rahan hate him, and he certainly didn't make Rahan climb a tree, get drunk, and fall out. He pitched in to help (okay, so we didn't see him help Rahan directly, but his response was perfectly correct and already started when Kes mentioned it), and he kept out of the way when more qualified people turned up. He also didn't lie to the guardsman or say anything to get Rahan in more trouble.

Now that's something I'm not certain about, one way or another. My own feelings on the matter are unsettled and uncomfortable.

It's like those signs on some bases - merely setting foot on this base is the equivelent of signing away your rights to use a camera, et cetera and if you don't wanna wave your rights, you can't come in...

I've even seen a few that read "Just READING this sign counts as waving your rights..." Talk about your catch-22 situations.

Quentyn didn't ask to be pitied, but then again, he was born. That might count as an automatic request for pity. Or it might not. I've seen it argued both ways.

Rahan's problem/attitude seems (at least to me) that he's not able to feel the way his father (according to RH) feels. From RH's description, Rahan's father sounds like a rather spartan sort - something Rahan is not.

I have to wonder - is Rahan trying to live up to some expectations on his father's part? Or of his own? Or is it simply that he feels that he's paid his dues and gotten little in return while Quentyn hasn't paid any dues and gotten fame and fortune? (Please note, I don't intend to imply Quentyn hasn't paid any dues, merely that *Rahan* feels he hasn't paid any..)

I'm not certain WHY, but there's something about Rahan that's reminding me of a few lines from one of the Honor Harrington books by Dave Weber.

Lemme see if I can find the bit - I *know* I have it as an ebook somewhere...

Ah! Here we go. (Gotta love Google Desktop version..)

From "Ashes of Victory", chapter 24:

And in those careerists' view, nothing so minor as a war for survival should be allowed to interfere with the appointed unfolding of God's plan for the universe . . . otherwise known as the seniority system. They'd always hated officers like Honor Harrington for their meteoric rises and the way they kept jumping the zone, leapfrogging those ahead of them on the basis of mere achievement and, in the process, pushing back the regular, seniority-based promotions on which any good careerist relied.

*chuckle*

To be honest, half of me thinks that's contemptable, half of me wants to cheer the careerists on for their courage in standing up for the way the world SHOULD work.. After all, they've paid their dues, they've stood in line, shouldn't they have something due them?

So, there's part of me that feels for Rahan - he's done his time, he ought to get something for it. Instead, Fate or God or the White Stag or whatever came along and tapped Quentyn on the shoulder, not Rahan.

Meh. My feelings on the subject are confused enough as it is. I doubt I'll ever figure them out.

EdBecerra wrote:So, there's part of me that feels for Rahan - he's done his time, he ought to get something for it. Instead, Fate or God or the White Stag or whatever came along and tapped Quentyn on the shoulder, not Rahan.

Well, that's grace for you. No one ever deserves it, not even those who get it, so it's useless for one to complain that he was more worthy of it than someone else. It's what you do with what you're given that counts anyway. What you're given matters of course -- the more you're given, the greater the expectation. That's why Rahan might reasonably expect to get singed once in a while, but Quentyn can equally expect to have to die while fulfilling his duties. (He's already as good as done it.)

Squeaky Bunny wrote:Es muy borracho, Si?

EsTÁ muy borracho.