Human Technology

[AYBABTU]

Never even seen one. I just play alot of war games on the computer and X-box, Battlefield 2: Modern Combat in particular.

[AYBABTU]

Hence my fascination with guns and whatnot. I'm a 13-year-old ace gamer who plays violent games 24-hours a day. Yeah, I'm kind of a nut-job.

[EdBecerra]

I suspect it would have turned out to be a dead-end design branch anyway.

That's sort of my personal sore spot, RH... I honestly feel all branches of science and design should be explored to whatever dead-ends they lead to. And that if something better comes along, we should NOT have this odd and extremely frustrating reluctance to tear down the previous infrastructure and build something better.

Why is it we so often go for the short-term, rarely thinking about long term consequences?

Why is it that it takes a case of natural disaster or total war to get people to rebuild with the best and most recent technology? And even then, we bitch and moan about the cost?

Really, if someone appointed me world dictator for a day, I'd be tempted to abolish most income taxes in the form of cash, and change them to labor. Something like a cross between the American national guard and the old Civilian Construction Corp of the 30's. You'd be drafted, like it or not, at the age of 16. You'd spend one weekend a month, and one month a year, doing grunt-level labor on construction projects. If you obtained a special skill (doctor, dentist, like that) you'd be diverted to do that instead - say, assigned to a rural village that wouldn't normally have a doctor (Shades of "Northern Exposure" there, don't you think?)

You'd get NO pay for this. Just room and board. This would be your "tax" to the nation. Twenty years of it, and you can leave.

And we'd never run out of projects, because there are so MANY that need to be done, but cannot be done if you have to pay the workers for it.

One that comes to mind? There's a section of the US in the southwest where almost no one has underground tornado shelters... the bedrock is too close to the surface to dig basements.

A National Labor Corp would take care of that nicely... everyone trained in demo work would be required to donate their time and theirlabor in the field of explosives to BLOW suitable holes in the bedrock for basements.

And so on.

Would it work? I don't know. I honestly don't know. I know the old CCC worked, and the US did great and powerful things with such a large source of cheap American "coolie" labor. Today?

*shrugs*

I ramble, I suppose.

[EdBecerra]

If I believed that, I'd have to start praying for another Chicxulub event.

So if we can't get off the planet we should all die as soon as possible? That seems counterproductive, to say the least.

Not really. Better dead than living like low-tech savages.

Hell, I'm still pissed that we didn't get cheap space travel back in the 1930's!

I want Tomorrow, and I want it LAST WEEK!

[AYBABTU]

-_- dude.calm down.humanity's getting to that.

[Acolyte]

Hell, I'm still pissed that we didn't get cheap space travel back in the 1930's!

Count your blessings. If THE FUTURE had turned out the way it was supposed to in the '30s we'd all be wearing spandex jumpsuits right now.

Had space travel developed as Bob Heinlein hoped it would, we'd have large-scale commercial space travel right now. Unfortunately, the race to the Moon was conducted by the government, with predictable results. The privatization of space is just beginning. We'll get there -- just 25 years or so later than we might have otherwise.

[Trump]

I suspect it would have turned out to be a dead-end design branch anyway.

That's sort of my personal sore spot, RH... I honestly feel all branches of science and design should be explored to whatever dead-ends they lead to. And that if something better comes along, we should NOT have this odd and extremely frustrating reluctance to tear down the previous infrastructure and build something better.

Why is it we so often go for the short-term, rarely thinking about long term consequences?

I would have to agree. It is my belief that there is rarely such a thing as "dead-ends" in research. Merely missed and/or unexplored opportunities and solutions. Even a "mistake" may lead to an unexpected field of valuable research that noone has thought of before.

[Wanderwolf]

Well, folks have probably been expecting me to drop my two coppers on this topic... so here I am.

Here's a look back, in 300-year jumps (I believe that's the official figure on how long Rac Cona Daimh have been gone) from today.

1706: Men wear powdered wigs (perruqes) drawn back into ponytails (queues) and covered with wig bags (just the ponytail part). They wear shoes/boots with inch-high heels, and carry chapeau de jambe (arm hats) and walking sticks. Women wear powdered wigs, voluminous skirts puffed out with layer upon layer of petticoats (if they have any pretentions to high society; otherwise, plain dresses), and achieve a pale look to their skins through the application of arsenic powder. Benjamin Franklin is born; the composer of the Pachelbel Canon dies. The greek letter Pi is first used to represent the ratio of a circle. England and France still have kings; Ethiopia has an emperor; America has just a handful of what will become the thirteen colonies. Intercontinental travel is by fast clipper ship; land travel is by horse and buggy, using the new leaf springs for a softer ride. Movable type is used to create broadsides (flyers) and posters to spread information, though most cities still employ a town cryer. There are no lending libraries, or volunteer fire departments, or female nurses. (Not counting wetnurses, obviously.) Women could not be doctors, and could not hold office. Disinfectant, antiseptic and anesthetic have not yet been invented. (This is the age when "bite the bullet" was coined.) Guns are muskets; men still carry swords for personal defense and show, as small-arms weapons are not very useful pre-revolver. Sympathetic powder is in common use; it is sprinkled upon an article which inflicted the wound, or which has some of the wound's blood on it. The wound itself is gently bandaged and kept clean, while the patient observes care in his diet. (It thus effects greater cures than all other wound-ointments combined.)

1406: Ptolemy's Geography is translated into Latin; clocks begin to use balance wheels in place of the weighted-bar pendulums. Dick Whittington is first made Lord Mayor of London. China begins construction of what is now The Forbidden City. James I becomes King of Scotland while in English captivity. Women wear long, straight dresses and linen head coverings; men wear hose and tunics. The two-masted ship is the latest in ocean travel; the coach is the fastest passenger-bearing land vehicle, with no springs. (Metal was too precious to waste on such things.) All printing is done by woodcut and engraving, while most books are copied longhand. The nobility are the only ones allowed to carry swords; commoners must content themselves with maces, spears, etc. Medicine is mostly herbal, as dissection is forbidden by the Church. Money is strictly in the form of coins; promissory notes, which will develop into checks, are of very recent invention, employed mostly by traders. (And available only from Jews; Christians are forbidden to practice moneylending with interest, or "usury".)

1106: Capital-letter printing is done with woodcuts. The Chinese build a pagoda 78 feet high, each level cast as a single piece of cast iron. Ananda Temple in Pagan (now Burma) is completed. Windmills are built in Europe. Fashions favor the wide and straight; women's dresses are long and straight, longer as class improves. Men's clothes center around the smock. The fastest ships are single-mast; the fastest land travel is by horse, with wagons carrying goods (for the most part). Returning Crusaders spread the fashions of the Islamic and Judaic world. Most books are in scroll form, made of lambskin parchment. Medicine is the province of wise men and wise women... what are now called "witches".

906: The hop is first used in brewing beer. Men and women wear differing styles of gown, belted at the waist. Dyes are capable of producing only varying shades of blue, green, red and yellow. (Yellow is considered the color of a prostitute.) Women who marry must cover their hair with a veil and circlet. Hemp is commonly used as clothing material. The Royal Mint is founded in England (I didn't know it was losted...). The T'ang Dynasty falls in China. Ships are rowed by galley workers; the horse and ox are in common use for land travel. (Masts are used only for small vessels.) Medicine is the province of learned men, studying ancient Greek texts by Paracelsus. (The country folk fare far better with practical knowledge.)

So 300 years is a long time, no matter how far back you go.

Yours truly,

The late-for-game-night,

Wanderer

[EdBecerra]

Well, folks have probably been expecting me to drop my two coppers on this topic... so here I am.

Here's a look back, in 300-year jumps (I believe that's the official figure on how long Rac Cona Daimh have been gone) from today.

<snip>

So 300 years is a long time, no matter how far back you go.

Yours truly,

The late-for-game-night,

Wanderer

Not far or fast enough for me, Wander...

But then, the more you give me, the more I want. I want it ALL and I want it NOW. I want my flying cars. I want my nuclear powered spacecraft. I want cities on the Moon and outpost colonies on Mars.

I want immortality.

And I want it, all of it, yesterday.

[Nick012000]

We could have nuclear powered spacecraft today, if people put the effort into actually making one. We have the technology; the only thing stopping us is the irrational fear of radiation and enviromentalists doing destructive stuff.

[BlasTech]

Never even seen one. I just play alot of war games on the computer and X-box, Battlefield 2: Modern Combat in particular.

*woot* More BF2 players!!

[Tom Mazanec]

I'm with EdBecerra on this one. I want the Singularity to occur NOW. Then I want tomorrow to have some real changes!

[Anthony Lion]

Really, if someone appointed me world dictator for a day, I'd be tempted to abolish most income taxes in the form of cash, and change them to labor. Something like a cross between the American national guard and the old Civilian Construction Corp of the 30's.

And we'd never run out of projects, because there are so MANY that need to be done, but cannot be done if you have to pay the workers for it.

And how do you intend to pay for the material costs?

Not to mention that many construction-companies would get into financial trouble because the big government projects they rely on would no longer exist.

One that comes to mind? There's a section of the US in the southwest where almost no one has underground tornado shelters... the bedrock is too close to the surface to dig basements.

A National Labor Corp would take care of that nicely... everyone trained in demo work would be required to donate their time and theirlabor in the field of explosives to BLOW suitable holes in the bedrock for basements.

This is caused by sloppy construction-codes and even sloppier thinking by the home-owners.

A basement is NOT expensive to build, even if they have to blast the hole for it. (We have to do that for most homes here in Norway as most of the country is bedrock with a bit of topsoil here and there...)
In fact, it's common to build houses with a complete, small apartment in the basement and rent it out to cover a big chunk of the mortgage.

[BrockthePaine]

One that comes to mind? There's a section of the US in the southwest where almost no one has underground tornado shelters... the bedrock is too close to the surface to dig basements.

A National Labor Corp would take care of that nicely... everyone trained in demo work would be required to donate their time and theirlabor in the field of explosives to BLOW suitable holes in the bedrock for basements.

And the southwest really needs tornado shelters because...?

Seriously, when we Kansans hear the tornado siren, everybody walks outside to look up. We're the people who should be using the tornado shelters, and we barely even bother

No, what the southwest really needs is one big honkin' rain machine, that's what it needs!

[BrockthePaine]

But then, the more you give me, the more I want. I want it ALL and I want it NOW. I want my flying cars. I want my nuclear powered spacecraft. I want cities on the Moon and outpost colonies on Mars.

I want immortality.

And I want it, all of it, yesterday.

That which is possible and that which is feasible do not necessarily mix.

Still, it'd be cool if we had cities on the moon. And I even put together an idea for roads for hovercraft...

[AYBABTU]

And I want it, all of it, yesterday.

And I want my 30-foot-tall, 100-ton walking tanks bristling with weaponry. But that ain't likely to happen anytime soon.

[Shyal_malkes]

I find it amazing how true that necessity is the mother of invention. there are tricks I manage to pull off only when I really want to and have a strong drive to do them. as though creativity and ingenuity were driven by force of will.

perhaps what our world lacks is a population that can agree on what it wants on a whole. I mean we know what we want, kinda but how unified are we, and more importantly, how driven are we.

sure, we could maybe blow up mars, let alone visit it. but we just don't want to. we aren't driven enough to try to do it.

I dream of the technology that could maybe exist if the laws of physics agreed with me (I'm still unsure if they disagree with me) but I don't know how to push it or test it, sometimes I don't even know how to describe it. it's just a dream and I keep dreaming, if someone makes something that will get us to jupiter that's great. but today I have class, breakfast, lunch, more class, internet stuff, a sprite I'm trying to recolor and a whole lot of things that are driving my attention away from jupiter, mars and the rest of them rocks up there.

*sigh* I don't know weather to feel depressed, or relieved that I'm not under any pressure to get up there and actually worry about stuff like decompression, recycleable water and materials, and a whole other set of problems that I don't have to deal with.

maybe in the end we like dreaming of things more then we're willing to actually go out and get them.
I don't know.

[JakeWasHere]

I'm trapped in a world before later on
I'm trapped in a world before later on

Where's my hovercraft
Where's my jet pack
Where's the font of acquired wisdom that eludes me now?

We're trapped in a world before later on
We're trapped in a world before later on

Where's our Tel-Ray
Where's our space face
Where are all the complications we won't see around?

--They Might Be Giants

[Acolyte]

I'm with EdBecerra on this one. I want the Singularity to occur NOW. Then I want tomorrow to have some real changes!

And why do you guys suppose that humanity would survive that paradigm shift?

[EdBecerra]

I'm with EdBecerra on this one. I want the Singularity to occur NOW. Then I want tomorrow to have some real changes!

And why do you guys suppose that humanity would survive that paradigm shift?

And why do YOU want to remain human? Seriously.

Frail fleshy body, so easy to break... doesn't even last for 100 years, the majority of them.

Gimme something in a nice hyper-alloy chassis, with a 500 year guarentee and optional replacement every other century.

Human isn't the meat, isn't even the 'soul'. We're the sum of our experiences and memories. As long as there is continuity, I'm still 'me'.

Or do you mean human extinction? 'cause if you're referring to the possibility of "oops, Skynet just launched because it wanted to be rid of us icky fleshlings", yeah, that could happen. A bit stupid on Skynet's part, though.

As the scumbag who betrays the good guys in the first Matrix movie points out "Just gimme a good sim - the BEST sim. Lemme spend eternity like a sultan. Real life? T' hell with THAT crap..."

Skynet would have been better off with bribes, not war.

The numbers of the human race who'd take that over the risks of RL would be both impressive and scary. We're all sell-outs, you know. We can ALL be bought. It's just a matter of "how much?" and "Can anyone *afford* that price?"

Human survival?

Please define what you mean by "human".