Marksmanship 101

[Madmoonie]

Hovering doesn't count.... (and neither does hanging from the rafters)

(sniff) Only according to some!

[Jessterish]

*unlurk*
if you happen to live in Mi, I can tell you several places where you can rent handguns (with instructor supervision of course) and give some a try. I furst got into shooting a few years ago when my da gave me a gun for a birthday. Now I have several and my CCW permit. I agree, shooting is a highly relaxing and peaceful sport.
*relurk*

[Doink]

Thanks for your feedback, gentlemen. I'll be sure to read up on this in my spare time. As for visiting firing ranges, I'm currently seventeen years old and won't be touching a firearms for quite some time. Besides, my parents have shown liberal tendencies and I'm not sure how to react if I ask them to take me.

[Sharuuk]

Thanks for your feedback, gentlemen. I'll be sure to read up on this in my spare time. As for visiting firing ranges, I'm currently seventeen years old and won't be touching a firearms for quite some time. Besides, my parents have shown liberal tendencies and I'm not sure how to react if I ask them to take me.

You are more than welcome.

Being seventeen is no legal bar from handling or shooting guns of most any kind. Your age only bars you from legally purchasing one. Rifles and shotguns of any calibre or gauge can be legally purchased from a dealer when you turn 18, but you'll have to wait until you're 21 to purchase a handgun.

The only way you're gonna find out how they'll react is ask them right up front If the 'rents react in a typical liberal horrified fashion, point out calmly and quite accruately that you're interest firearms isn't going away and your learning about them in a safe, controlled environment, with qualified, experienced instructors is far preferable to learning "on the street".

Don't deliver this as an ultimatum, but you'll need to explain to them that your curiosity about firearms is not going to just "go away" and is going to be satisfied one way or another and you'd far prefer it to be under the above stated conditions.

Good luck....I truely hope your parents are mature enough to understand that "shielding" you from the evils of guns and gun owners is both childsh (on their part) and counter-productive. Firearms are a fact of American life and culture and one way or another you're going to not only be exposed to them, you will come into contact with them. I only hope it's in a positive way and that you enjoy it.

S'aaruuk

[Labrusca]

Too bad Doink isn't a bit younger. He could join the Boy Scouts and learn gun safety there. Both my sons did it that way and they were good shooters by their mid teens. One mostly lost interest eventually, but the other is an excellent hunter, to the point that he goes bow hunting more now, because he likes the challenge of being able to get close.

[TMLutas]

Thanks for your feedback, gentlemen. I'll be sure to read up on this in my spare time. As for visiting firing ranges, I'm currently seventeen years old and won't be touching a firearms for quite some time. Besides, my parents have shown liberal tendencies and I'm not sure how to react if I ask them to take me.

There are plenty of people who are liberal who have guns. There's even a 'ha ha' game of gotcha for gun control advocates that have unlicensed firearms for themselves that some conservatives play.

I would encourage you if you have a genuine interest in guns to take a safety course and get educated about these tools. But if it's just a way to tweak your parents, maybe it would be a better idea to find another way to do it. Guns are neither a toy, nor appropriate for intergenerational mind games.

[Doink]

But if it's just a way to tweak your parents, maybe it would be a better idea to find another way to do it. Guns are neither a toy, nor appropriate for intergenerational mind games.

No offense, but how in the world did you come to the conclusion that this sudden interest in guns was for the sole purpose of scaring my parents? I can do that just fine without firearms.

No, my friend, my interest in firearms has been sparked mostly by Ralph's comics (and the forums), culminating in the Goblin Hollow strip with the police badger. My curiosity has been piqued and I'm just trying to learn more about this hobby.

And as for how dangerous guns are, I'm not that ignorant. I know how dangerous guns are; in fact, they make me a little nervous. This will probably be a bigger factor in keeping me away from the shooting range than my parents.

[Bigdude]

I recall many years ago driving out to a "gun group camping trip" in Arizona.

I'm from California. In that state concealed folding knives are legal, no length limit so long as they're not switchblades and they're concealed while closed. I also had (in my bike's luggage) my gun and holster, unloaded and locked per California law.

AZ law wouldn't let me pack the knife, not concealed, but I could load up the gun and strap up open carry no problem. So some re-arranging was in order about 10ft past the border (on the AZ side!).

I'd never worn a gun in public before. Shot at ranges plenty of times, I was comfortable that I could handle the thing and it was of a modern transfer-bar design that wouldn't go off accidentally. It was a basic snubby revolver, 5-shot 38Spl and I had some decent defense-grade loads with me.

Strapping it on felt uncomfortable. Sitting there alone in the desert on a bike seemed like the proper place to ponder it. I decided that it damned well should feel uncomfortable, that the power of life and death damn well should make me or anybody else sane uneasy. But I also trusted my moral sense not to do anything dumb, and as I don't drink or do drugs period any issues of those sorts are moot.

So I fired up the bike and headed east, armed.

I live in another state now, have a CCW permit and pack regularly. But there's always that twinge strapping up and overall, that's a good thing.

[Doink]

True. I suppose this apprehension will make me much more likely to obey those safety rules. But will it make it harder to aim the gun at the firing range?

[TMLutas]

But if it's just a way to tweak your parents, maybe it would be a better idea to find another way to do it. Guns are neither a toy, nor appropriate for intergenerational mind games.

No offense, but how in the world did you come to the conclusion that this sudden interest in guns was for the sole purpose of scaring my parents? I can do that just fine without firearms.

No, my friend, my interest in firearms has been sparked mostly by Ralph's comics (and the forums), culminating in the Goblin Hollow strip with the police badger. My curiosity has been piqued and I'm just trying to learn more about this hobby.

And as for how dangerous guns are, I'm not that ignorant. I know how dangerous guns are; in fact, they make me a little nervous. This will probably be a bigger factor in keeping me away from the shooting range than my parents.

What set my alarm bells to ringing was that you mentioned your parents at all, and especially because you mentioned their political leanings. Glad to read that it was a false alarm.

[Sharuuk]

True. I suppose this apprehension will make me much more likely to obey those safety rules. But will it make it harder to aim the gun at the firing range?

Doink....

Don't ever be afraid or intimidated by an inanimate object......and that's all a gun is, an inanimate collection of screws, pins, springs, oddly shaped chunks of metal, plastic and a tube. It can do absolutely nothing without a human brain behind it and a hand holding it. Never be afraid of a gun, respect it and what it can do.....but never fear one.

There are far too many people who harbor an irrational and illogical fear of guns because of the mythos surrounding them and the people who choose to own and use them. We can go into what kinds of "thought processes" these folks employ that are driven by this irrational fear later. Suffice to say they are called "hoplophobes" suffering from "hoplophobia", an irrational, unreasonable, and illogical fear of weapons, specifically firearms.

As to your apprehension....it will disappear with knowledge and experience. And no....it should NOT effect your aim or ability to hit your target.....MOF your aim will improve the more you shoot.

There are 4 simple, common sense rules that apply to guns. Keep these in mind and practice them and you'll never have a problem.

1) All guns are ALWAYS LOADED!

2) NEVER point a gun at anything you do not intend to destroy.

3) KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER until your sights are on your target.

4) ALWAYS BE SURE of your target AND BEYOND!

Having been raised around guns, I'm as comfortable with a gun in my hand or at my side as I am with a cell phone or ball point pen.....it's just another item that I carry with me. BUT......I never forget the power and potential for irreparable destruction that my guns are capable of. And I'm also aware that they can do nothing without a conscious, deliberate effort and action on my part.

S'aaruuk

[BlasTech]

What kind of shooting are you looking at doink?

[Doink]

Wel, I asked my Dad about firing ranges last night, and got the following points:

-He's been to a firing range before,
-He recommends that I don't get involved with guns,
-Under no circumstances should I ever tell my mother about this,
-He thinks she'll freak out due to my interest in video games,
-The sound of a firing is exteremely loud.

I have come to the conclusion that I am not yet old enough to handle the responsibility of handling a gun. Until I get to college (where my parents can't touch me), my interest in firearms will remain confined to books.

What kind of shooting are you looking at doink?

Firing ranges, possibly skeet shooting later on. I draw the line at hunting. No matter how far this gun interest of mine goes, I will NEVER shoot an animal except in self-defense.

[JakeWasHere]

Yeah, AZ still has that law. As long as you have a license, you can open-carry without a problem - and they also offer CCW permits.

Of course, God knows how much longer THAT is going to last.

[Bigdude]

AZ allows open carry *without* any permit. Just don't be a convicted felon or pack a stolen gun, or exhibit "obvious signs of criminal intent" such as clear-cut burglary tools in the trunk.

The AZ gun carry permit is for concealed weapons only, doesn't involve open carry at all.

Vermont and Alaska are the only two states that allow unlimited concealed or open carry (your choice) with no government permission slip required. Idaho and I think Montana are that way outside the city limits of incorporated towns.

See also the state-by-state legal summaries at:

http://packing.org

[Sharuuk]

Wel, I asked my Dad about firing ranges last night, and got the following points:

Okay....a couple of things here need to be addressed. I don't profess to being a psychoalylist or psychologist, but I've seen this particular pattern too many times to not know a great deal about the dynamics and psychological makeup of the people involved. Please understand that I am NOT throwing rocks at your parents over this. I am simply responding to a recognizable, predictable, and "fixed" pattern of reactions that I've personally witnessed in my 30+ years in the gun control arena.

-He's been to a firing range before,

Great. That means he know what goes on there and generally what kind of people can be found there.

-He recommends that I don't get involved with guns,

Why not? Please define "getting involved with". Does he think that getting involved with firearms will suddenly magically turn you into a pierced and tattooed, drug besotted gangbanger just itching to "bust a cap" on some a$$hole who dissed you? I admit to being a bit melodramatic here, but don't laugh too hard, there really are people out there, not just over protective parents who actually, truely believe that'll happen if you develope an interest in guns and shooting.

-Under no circumstances should I ever tell my mother about this,
-He thinks she'll freak out due to my interest in video games,

Maybe tell her later, but for now, I'll agree with him. Liberal moms tend to totally overreact to the idea of their little darlings even having an interest in evil, nasty guns. See the above as applicable.

And I'm just POSITIVE that the shoot-'em-up video games you routinely play are already planting the seeds of a mass murderer in your poor weak little mind that will soon blossom and explode on an unsuspecting citizenry down at the mall with horrendous results if you "get involved" with guns........NOT!!!!!

-The sound of a firing is exteremely loud.

And his point is??? Gunfire is loud...DUUUHHH.....So WHAT??? That's what ear plugs, muffs and other hearing protection is all about. Why should THAT make it a subject to be avoided?

I've seen THIS pattern with a lot of gun-shy to full blown anti-gun liberals........it's a form of "projection" defense. In their hearts they don't think they can be trusted to use a firearm responsibely and since you're their offspring, ergo, YOU can't be trusted either. So, knowing that at your age now, flat out prohibiting you from ever having anything to do with guns, and that would INCLUDE YOUR VIDEO GAMING would only inflame your desire to "get involved" with them, a "soft peddled" approach is employed. An attempt to gently dissuade you from becoming interested in firearms any more than as an "intellectual" curiosity. God forbid you actually pick one up, shoot it and *gasp* ENJOY IT!!!!!!!

I have come to the conclusion that I am not yet old enough to handle the responsibility of handling a gun.

Really? At the age of 10, I was considered responsible enough to take the family .22 down to the river (when we visited Gramma and Grampa in VA) alone and plink at cans from the railroad trestle. Have YOU come to that conclusion, or have your parents convinced you of it? What do you HONESTLY BELIEVE? Are you so unstable and irresponsible that because you're holding a potentially deadly instrument in your hand that you're automatacally going to do the wrong thing with it? How do you feel about handling a chainsaw, an axe, a machete, or a very large extremely sharp knife? All of these are potentially deadly weapons. Are you mature enough to handle these items with respect to what they can do responsibly? If you can honestly answer "yes" to that question, then you're responsible enough to handle a gun safely. If you can't, then maybe you shouldn't be allowed outside without adult supervision.

Until I get to college (where my parents can't touch me), my interest in firearms will remain confined to books.

Your parents may not be able to touch you on this issue, but given the extreme liberal left wing ideology of most of todays campuses, you just might have even MORE objection to an interest in guns from not only other students, but some of the faculty and administration as well. Your GPA could even be held hostage until you professed "enlightenment" on the evils of gun ownership. It's been tried several times.

Been there, done that, got the scars to prove it. Bloodied and scarred, but victorious and never bowed....NEVER bowed. But this is for another thread.

What kind of shooting are you looking at doink?

Firing ranges, possibly skeet shooting later on. I draw the line at hunting. No matter how far this gun interest of mine goes, I will NEVER shoot an animal except in self-defense.

Skeet and trap shooting are an absolute ball. And as humbling as golf. It may look pretty easy, and to a point it is......but looks can be VERY deceiving. As to not being a hunter.....there's absolutely NOTHING WRONG with that mindset.....just don't condemn others who enjoy hunting.

S'aaruuk

[T.s.a.o]

i wouldn't mind hunting m'self, but i won't waste the meat of anything, but i'd pefer to learn how Cuck Norris takes down a elk or a antelope with a roundhouse kick.
Anyway i just saw my first drive-by; an Asain fell and was carried off. A so its piqued my interest myself, although I doubt i'll ever get the skill to stop as massive a target as any vehicle, that's moving as well...

[Nick012000]

t.s.a.o: I'm not sure if I should be alarmed by your post or not. Are you saying that you want to develop firearms skills so you can fend off drive by shootings? If so, I applaud you. If you have to take down a car, barring antivehicular weaponry, I'm guessing that the best way to stop a car would be to shoot the driver.

[Sharuuk]

Unfortunately, shooting the driver does little or nothing to stop the car itself and can lead to an out-of-control, runaway motor vehicle endangering more innocent bystanders and occupied cars on the road.

If you absolutely MUST shoot at a moving car, as cliche' as it sounds, aim for the tires. You won't stop the car immediately, but a flat tire or two will certainly slow the getaway.

Thankfully, I've only had to shoot at one moving vehicle in my entire life. Fortunetly I was close to the road, had an autoloading 12Ga and got both right side tires in 3 shots. The occupants of said car wisely concluded that shooting it out with the team would not be conducive to their personal longevity and surrendered.

T.S.A.O. do you live in an area that has a prevelance of drive-bys, or did you just happen to be in the right place at the right (wrong?) time?

If the former is the case, I would MOST STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST opening fire on a carload of shooters. #1, their mobile and the car itself can be used as a virtually unstoppable weapon and #2 there's probably a lot more of them in the car with a lot more guns than just you. I was with a 6 man team and our co-ordinated and massed effort is what stopped the above ref'ed vehicle.

Only if you can catch them coming for you or someone you're with can returning fire be not only justified, but you'll at least spoil the shooters' aim and quite possibly save your life......but that would be in only the most extreme of situations.

S'aaruuk

[TMLutas]

Wel, I asked my Dad about firing ranges last night, and got the following points:

-He's been to a firing range before,
-He recommends that I don't get involved with guns,
-Under no circumstances should I ever tell my mother about this,
-He thinks she'll freak out due to my interest in video games,
-The sound of a firing is exteremely loud.

I have come to the conclusion that I am not yet old enough to handle the responsibility of handling a gun. Until I get to college (where my parents can't touch me), my interest in firearms will remain confined to books.

What kind of shooting are you looking at doink?

Firing ranges, possibly skeet shooting later on. I draw the line at hunting. No matter how far this gun interest of mine goes, I will NEVER shoot an animal except in self-defense.

Firing weapons is an activity for work and pleasure that's been done by lots of people that are much younger than you (I know you haven't said your age but if you're thinking this much about college, you're older than a significant amount of kids who regularly get trusted with firearms). So essentially, your dad is either not comfortable with guns and the gun using culture or he has some trust issues about you personally. It wouldn't be a bad thing to figure out which is the case.

If you've been behaving irresponsibly in your personal life, he'd know it and we wouldn't and then he'd be right and we'd be wrong to steer you towards guns before you got your larger act together in life. There *is* a baseline level of responsibility below which it is a bad idea to have guns around you. That's why the NRA has no problem with certain classes of people not being allowed to have firearms.

Teenage life is a very strange witches brew of psychological and physical adjustment and one of the toughest parts is in your relationship with your parents. Eventually, if you do it right, you end up friends but it can be a long road from here to there. I hope you have a better time on that road than I did.