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Or anything even vaguely similar, perhaps lux-based?

No one ever "forgets", data stored in the brain is there forever. Even Alzheimer's patients show this when brain cells are directly stimulated.

So Fen's got the song in his head, he's simply unable to locate where in his memory it's been stored.

A bit of hypnotism, perhaps a nice lux-based spell to regress him to the moment in the ring, something along those lines, and there you go.

Hell, he could probably recreate what he's done by concentrating on EACH instrument by itself. Write up the individual score of the one instrument alone. Move on to another. THEN show every bard that they have to play these instruments all at the same time.

If nothing else, he'll get a marching band out of it.

EdBecerra wrote:
No one ever "forgets", data stored in the brain is there forever. Even Alzheimer's patients show this when brain cells are directly stimulated.

True and false. There are different types of memory. There's short term memory, working memory, and of course long term memory. (I took pyschology last year, I almost totally know what I'm talking about.)

Short term is where things go that you only need to remember for a few seconds, like a phone number.

Working memory is cramming for a test. You're going to need it for a little while, but then you forget it.

And I don't need to explain long term.

There are different ways to forget stuff. Either it is never "encoded" (recorded), it is encoded wrong, or there is a problem with "retrieval," actually recalling the information.

So while Alzheimer patients have all their memories, they can't get to them, but if something didn't get recorded, it isn't going to be there later. As amazing as the human brain is, it couldn't possibly remember everything.

Sorry. That was really long.

Almost exactly what I was going to say there Sariah, Bravo ^_^

I think memory (I took psychology a long time ago so I have almost no idea what I'm talking about ) is mostly like paths or ditches plowed in a field, the problem is there is a lot of static and a lot of other things that make their own paths in the field and this makes some paths harder to retrace then others.

sorry, just a thought I had.

Sariah wrote:True and false. There are different types of memory. There's short term memory, working memory, and of course long term memory. (I took pyschology last year, I almost totally know what I'm talking about.)

Short term is where things go that you only need to remember for a few seconds, like a phone number.

Working memory is cramming for a test. You're going to need it for a little while, but then you forget it.

And I don't need to explain long term.

There are different ways to forget stuff. Either it is never "encoded" (recorded), it is encoded wrong, or there is a problem with "retrieval," actually recalling the information.

So while Alzheimer patients have all their memories, they can't get to them, but if something didn't get recorded, it isn't going to be there later. As amazing as the human brain is, it couldn't possibly remember everything.

Sorry. That was really long.

No need to be sorry, you used all the words you needed, no more. And that's all that can be asked of anyone.

Still, I've personally witnessed cases of electrical stimulation of brain cells, resulting in the patient remembering (for only so long as the stimulation was applied) things that you would normally consider to be short term memory. Even phone numbers that were used ONCE in their lifetime, and never again. It's the building of associations that matter - in more mundane terms, the people experimenting with electrical brain stimulation seem to have come to the conclusion that the brain is rather like a large museum with one of those cluttered warehouses out back where they keep all the unpopular exhibits. Now, imagine that some fool decides to burn the catalog that describes what's on which shelf in the warehouse, declaring "We only need to know where the POPULAR exhibits are kept. We'll never need to know where we keep the unpopular crap in the warehouse... who cares about it?"

But while it's lost inside the warehouse, that doesn't mean it ceases to exist now, does it?

This also tends to explain people with photographic memory, including those incredibly annoying ones who can tell you everything about every single friggin' second of their lives. THEIR cataloging systems are inhumanly perfect, most people's are just average, and Alzheimer patients have damaged (or worse, not existant!) cataloging systems.

In some ways, much like my house. I have plenty of items that I know I haven't lost... they're still in my house. I know that for certain. But WHERE in my house - that's a hopeless cause. Oy.

But that's just my experience and my opinion. YMMV.

I like that description.

Does this also pertain to information formed in our subconscious while we are in a dream state?

I almost get the impression that while one is within the fae rath that the music is implanted directly into the consciousness of the "listener"

The way Fen described it it was almost like a waking dream. The details immediately vivid, but rapidly fading.

I can remember bits and pieces of dreams that I had years ago, (especially the irritating ones, like finding the coolest hobby shop in the mall, going on a shopping spree, but then realizing before awaking that this is only a dream, and I won't own a thing of it when I wake up. =>.<=) but the vast majority are lost to me.

Ah, well, it's getting late and I got to work tomorrow, time to snooze...

I wonder if that shop will be open, again? They did have a great slotcar selection, like none I've ever seen... =^^=

Tbolt wrote:Does this also pertain to information formed in our subconscious while we are in a dream state?

I almost get the impression that while one is within the fae rath that the music is implanted directly into the consciousness of the "listener"

The way Fen described it it was almost like a waking dream. The details immediately vivid, but rapidly fading.

I can remember bits and pieces of dreams that I had years ago, (especially the irritating ones, like finding the coolest hobby shop in the mall, going on a shopping spree, but then realizing before awaking that this is only a dream, and I won't own a thing of it when I wake up. =>.<=) but the vast majority are lost to me.

Well, you could take a course in lucid dreaming. All the people I know who have state that they can clearly remember those dreams, and even take control of them. It's even possible to push it to a state of virtual reality where you can script your dream, then live it, according to some practitioners.

Of course, then you can fall victim to the temptation of trying to live in your dreams...

Something I can see happening, all too easily. I've had any number of dreams where my Aili was still alive, and I'd completely forgotten her death, only to wake and remember - I have to admit, the temptation to just stay in the dream forever is more than I would be able to resist.

Wait, Ed, electrical stimulation of the brain? Like with Dr. Delgado's brain implants? Or am I jumping to conclusions?

And I liked your house analogy. My dad will sometimes refer to my room as "the black hole of Princeton" (we live in Princeton).

Sariah wrote:Wait, Ed, electrical stimulation of the brain? Like with Dr. Delgado's brain implants? Or am I jumping to conclusions?

And I liked your house analogy. My dad will sometimes refer to my room as "the black hole of Princeton" (we live in Princeton).

Just what it sounds like... the experiments where hair thin (and smaller) wires are inserted into the brain and an almost microscopic trickle of current is applied. Depending on where in the brain the wires are inserted, different effects occur. Sounds, scents, sometimes entire flashbacks happen. And of course, when inserted into the proper areas of the visual cortex, light is seen - thus the basis for the world's first functioning artificial eye.

(You might recall the ten minute segment CNN did on that some years ago - a totally blind man was given the world's first permanant implant, and CNN followed him around an art museum as he wandered through it, enjoying the beauty he'd been denied for so very long... a resolution of only 160 pixels by 120, no larger than a postage stamp, yet he wept.)

And before you ask, no, I'm not a medical expert. What I AM is a disabled veteran and the son of two disabled veterans, who would often be babysat as a child by other disabled veterans. So I have a lifelong passion for prosthetics technology, for obvious reasons.

And thank you. The house analogy seemed appropriate, as I have a collection of paperback books that's just reached over 7,000 volumes. You can imagine my frustration at trying to find ONE scene in ONE book, when I can't even remember the title of the book in question. What am I gonna do - sit down and read them in non-stop sequence until I find that scene? As IF!