Gilder and Quentyn -- Law vs. Good

[Maxgoof]

We all side with Quentyn. Why? Well, he's the hero, first of all, but also we know something that nobody else in the seven villages knows for certain--Quentyn has been chosen for a mission by God. We know that. He was kissed by the white stag, he has spoken with Yeshua. Nobody else knows this for certain, only what he has told others, and even Quentyn isn't sure.

Gilder isn't evil. He cares about Law and Order. About stability.

And there you have it. Gilder is Lawful Neutral. Quentyn is Chaotic Good.

These two should not be polar opposites. Gilder sees Quentyn as a threat because he is Chaotic. Quentyn doesn't see Gilder as an enemy (oh, he sees his grandson as a bully, but not an enemy, not like he sees the Royals).

So, how can Gilder be wrong? What if there are those in places of power, or gaining in places of power, who are not Good or Neutral, but Evil, whose purposes truly are selfish and malevolent? Who use the Law to their own ends?

Then, at times, the law itself becomes an instrument of Evil. You can't touch them, because they are within the law.

Perhaps the society didn't realize just how important Questors were toward keeping that from happening. Questor are allowed to go around the law. They, and they alone, are allowed special powers to circumvent the law. Not all the time, but in very specific ways.

Obviously, even those powers can be abused, much like Judge Roy Bean did, and others in the Old West. But the law, in general, keeps them in check.

I guess what I'm saying here is that Goodness and Lawfulness go hand in hand, or at least should. But if it comes down to Goodness vs. Lawfulness, goodness wins. God cares more about goodness than law.

[Narnian]

<snip>I guess what I'm saying here is that Goodness and Lawfulness go hand in hand, or at least should. But if it comes down to Goodness vs. Lawfulness, goodness wins. God cares more about goodness than law.

Except God's law is good - there is no goodness without the law because you have no standard to determine what is good.

When man perverts God's law by adding to it then you have a point if you differentiate between laws from man and the law from God.

However there is something even greater - mercy.

[Shyal_malkes]

be carefull how much weight you put behind that stag's tongue though.

[Yuoofox]

The tricky thing is that it's easy to *think* that you're fighing for God's Good when you might not be. (That is not to say that you shouldn't try to fight for God's Good, but I'm just saying.)

[Troutnoodler]

The tricky thing is that it's easy to *think* that you're fighing for God's Good when you might not be. (That is not to say that you shouldn't try to fight for God's Good, but I'm just saying.)

Somehow, I think I would trust Quentyn's judgement in that respect far more than any leaders in our own world, religious or secular.

[Catherine_Puce]

I think that Glider play with fire. They're nothing worst that a embittered questor. If glider go too far, Quentyn could give up to be questor for his kind and work for a species who will be more happy to have a questor. Someone who want help everyone ready to pay and need help. From what it seem, very few species seem by able to do magic, so someone with a leevel of magic of Quentyn level can be considerate like a great warlock outside the raccoonans society. The humans by example could find the interest in someone who could do spell. The gragum too, I suppose that a little of magic could help them to extend their territory outside of the fog wall. This could lead to a worst situation that Glider imagine. Like said master Rillcreek said: "In this troubled world, heroes little problem to finding someplace that they are needed". This place is maybe not in the seven villages' lands.

Quentyn est d?brouillard et l'aventure, c'est sa vie. Il ne va pas abandonner.

S.P.P.

[Troutnoodler]

I suddenly see Gilder in a whole new light, and it's rather favorable, I think?

I also see the Council of Elders in a more janudiced light. Gilder is right, they treat Quentyn like some sort of quaint, "military re-enactor". (Think of what would happen in our society if Joe Average Citizen got pinned with a badge and started walking around, wearing a duster and carrying a sawed-off shotgun. All legal, but yeesh! ANACHRONISM!!)

So when Quentyn did his duty and flexed his legally-authorized muscles, the Town Elders got scalded by the same hot water he got into, and they acted out of petty vindictiveness.

Gilder has a very valid point. Even if it seems that he's being too protective of the law and it's representatives, rest assured, if Quentyn botches an operation involving a high-level politician or offical of the law, all Hell is going to break loose. And like Gilder says, Quentyn will be caught in the middle, along with everyone else associated with him.

However, I think Gilder has a golden opportunity available to him, and I think he just might be wise enough to take it.

Gilder needs to train Quentyn.

Being a Questor carries great responsibility, and part of that responsibility entails knowing the law and the penalties for breaking those laws. So it only makes sense for Gilder to take Quentyn under his wing and teach him everything he knows, perhaps even train him to the point where he would have the equivalent of a para-legal degree.

If Quentyn is going to be a Questor, dancing around the edges of the law from time to time, then he'd BETTER know precisely where those edges are.

And if Gilder can teach him the law, then should the crap hit the fan and the well-being of the town is on the line, Gilder can say, "I taught him the law, and he qualified with 'X' School of Law! He knew what he was doing and knew what the penalties were; he did this all on his own!"

A very ugly thought. However...if Gilder were to explain this to Quentyn-and I honestly think he would because he's like that-both of them would be able to see eye-to-eye on things.

Quentyn would be much more aware of his place, his purpose and his duty to all involved. And Gilder would feel a bit better about letting The Questor of Freeman's Downs loose upon the world at large.

[BlasTech]

Very good points there. One of the absolute-worst-case-scenarios-that-probably-wont-happen-but-is-what-is-making-Gilder-so-scared. Is quentyn doing something that may have been excusable in "frontier" times for reasons of morality that might not be quite so easily overcome in "the law and order times".

I think RH said that the rac-conan legal system does not have a charge of manslaughter. its either mitigated through acts such as self defence, or its murder and carries the death penalty ... follow that line of thought and you might see what im afraid of

I hope im just jumping at shadows, but its scary enough to merit mentioning, especially as this would indeed lead to both quent and Freeman Downs being "ground up" as Gilder said.

[Zorro]

Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil have more in common than Lawful Good does to either.

They don't really recognize when the law is used as a weapon, or in the evil configuration care.

What makes you really think that Gilder doesn't use laws and the courts to make more profits as a Merchant?

[Dragoon The Griffin]

<snip>I guess what I'm saying here is that Goodness and Lawfulness go hand in hand, or at least should. But if it comes down to Goodness vs. Lawfulness, goodness wins. God cares more about goodness than law.

Except God's law is good - there is no goodness without the law because you have no standard to determine what is good.

When man perverts God's law by adding to it then you have a point if you differentiate between laws from man and the law from God.

However there is something even greater - mercy.

There is a difference between following devine mandate than being lawfull. Devine mandate is how good is defined, not neccessarily law. Lawfull is the law of the living. It is slavery; it is aparthied; it is the inquisition; it is serfdom; it is totalitarianism. The lawfull support those, at least the breed of lawfull we are talking about. Quenty is definitely chaotic, he's an adventurous free spirt who's job appears to be something between private investigator and mercenary. He follow's devine mandate, but not so much the law of the land, he doesn't break it for no reason, but he isn't one to wait to get things done through the proper channels.

[SolidusRaccoon]

The tricky thing is that it's easy to *think* that you're fighing for God's Good when you might not be. (That is not to say that you shouldn't try to fight for God's Good, but I'm just saying.)

Ah but those of us who are perfect need not worry about that.

[DracoDei]

The tricky thing is that it's easy to *think* that you're fighing for God's Good when you might not be. (That is not to say that you shouldn't try to fight for God's Good, but I'm just saying.)

Ah but those of us who are perfect need not worry about that.

Do you have ANY idea how...
no, wait a sec.
Nevermind.
On second thought I am sure you are WELL aware of how scary those words are.

[Jwrebholz]

I figured Quentyn to be Neutral Good as opposed to Lawful Good. He'll work within the established system MOST of the time, but isn't afraid to bend (or outright break) the rules when necessary.

But I agree that a rudimentary education of the laws of the land would be a supremely good idea for Quentyn. Knowing WHERE the line is will help him judge when and how to cross it.

[Sun tzu]

Qunetyn's alignment seems neutral good to me. He is willing to work outside of the system if he has to, but usually prefers to follow the rules.

[The JAM]

[...unWARP!]

Good evening.


Anyone remember this?

ROBIN HOOD: PRINCE OF THIEVES
"To do justice, he had to break the law"


Or at least that's what it said in Spanish.


?Zacatep?ngolas!

Until next time, remember:

I

AM

THE

J.A.M. (a.k.a. Numbuh i: "Just because I'm imaginary doesn't mean I don't exist")

Good evening.

[WARP!!!]

[Jaydub]

shyal_malkes Wrote:

be carefull how much weight you put behind that stag's tongue though.

So we should not believe the White Stag is a messanger from Yeshu?

Does that mean we should ignor the 10 commandments because God spoke to Moses as a burning bush?

[Shyal_malkes]

no, it means that we shouldn't take the squire's comments and addendums as seriously as the prophet's

I don't know the exact reference but I know it's in Deuteronemy where one of the prophets sent a message to some guy that had a question and told the messenger carrying it specifically to not alter the message. well the messenger did anyway and the prophet had to re-send the message.

though the ten commandments and the further laws were given to the childeren of Isreal Christ still came and gave them further instruction, more important instruction. that fulfilled the law of moses.

my origional point was that it had never been officially confirmed what exactly the role of the white stag was exactly. until we know (KNOW, not suspect) what that role is we may take too seriously (or, I admit frivolously) it's actions.

do I believe Quentyn is special?

YES, OF COURSE I DO!

but not because of some shock of white hair

Quentyn's a good kid who does what he thinks he should do, not what he wants to do, what he should do. that alone can take more guts then any battle he's faced thus far.

[Jaydub]

shyal_malkes Wrote:

my origional point was that it had never been officially confirmed what exactly the role of the white stag was exactly. until we know (KNOW, not suspect) what that role is we may take too seriously (or, I admit frivolously) it's actions.

Here are a couple of strips that may not remember on the founding of the Sojourner Church and the White Stag. Please note the stained glass in the church.

http://npc.keenspace.com/d/20040905.html

http://npc.keenspace.com/d/20040207.html

I know that RH has not given us the details or every line and verse but I don't think it takes leap of faith to see the significance of the White Stag.

[Doink]

These two should not be polar opposites. Gilder sees Quentyn as a threat because he is Chaotic. Quentyn doesn't see Gilder as an enemy (oh, he sees his grandson as a bully, but not an enemy, not like he sees the Royals).

Rahan is Gilder's grandson?

[Werekitty]

The tricky thing is that it's easy to *think* that you're fighing for God's Good when you might not be. (That is not to say that you shouldn't try to fight for God's Good, but I'm just saying.)

Ah but those of us who are perfect need not worry about that.

Really. And you've met people who are perfect? Or do you think that you, yourself, are perfect?

Hm... Anybody got the number for those nice men in the clean white coats?