What value hath gold?

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Yuoofox
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Post by Yuoofox »

I think that the Racconans would really like the material plastic. From what I understand, the more heavy-duty grade plastics are made with special chemicals, but some basic types of plastic can be made from corn oil.


I think that the Racconans would find it just as cool that we can do things without Lux as they can with Lux. On a scholarly level, I think people would be excited about each others' knowledge, even knowledge that has nothing to do with the Racconans' Lux or our high-tech gismos. Take prime numbers, for instance. ["Oh dear, there Yuoo goes again with prime numbers. :roll:"] Although newer improvements have been made, one of the best ways of finding prime numbers was invented by a person born in 276 B.C. (sieve of Eratosthenese) It's the little discoveries here and there, filling in each others' gaps, that would have the best impact over time.


After all, "a Rac Cona Daimh standing on the shoulders of a human can see further than the human can." Or maybe I have that backwards, "a human standing on the shoulders of a Rac Cona Daimh can see further than the Rac Cona Daimh can." That might be painful, though, for the Racconan.

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Post by Maxgoof »

Strategia wrote:
BlasTech wrote:Buh? Nooo, thats a elfshot pistol. The boomslang is a firearm ... its what the guardsman captain was wielding in the gragum saga, and was also what was used to blow holes in the roof that Quentyn was hiding on.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Quentyn didn't have a musket-like apparel with him at any point in the story IIRC. For as far as I know, "boomslang" is another name for an elfshot pistol.
You are both right and wrong.

Quentyn didn't have a musket-like apparel with him at any point in the story. In this you are correct.

On the other hand, "boomslang" is not another name for an elfshot pistol. A boomslang is a musket, basically.

In other words, Quentyn has never handled a boomslang.
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Post by RHJunior »

StrangeWulf13 wrote:Oh, you can bet there'd be a few people on earth who'd want to reenact the Doom games with the newly terraformed Mars and the local Cyantian population.

Cyantian: Hi! Welcome to--

Space Marine: GET THE HECK OFF OUR PLANET!!

Cyantian: :o Oh crap.

*many grisly things follow, most of which are too graphic to display here... really*

Space Marine: Who wants roasted fox?

It would be more a question of humanity reacting to their presence--- and their "gifts"--- as being an attempt at conquest by mercantilism... most people would see it as an attempt to make Earth dependent upon their technology, and eventually on their rule.

And the fact that the Cyantians (so that's the correct name?) apparently think nothing of saying "we'll give you all these neat toys if you let us tell you what you can and can't do from now on," that suspicion would be inflated to outright paranoia and open hostility.
Every human knows, deep in the marrow of their bones, that gifts always come with strings attached.

Add to that the fact that a gift, especially an extravagant one, can be percieved as an insult. Having an alien race drop out of the blue and start handing out extraterrestrial charity would be a debilitating blow to the pride of the human race... and a terrible insult to humanity's intelligence and capability.
"What was that popping noise ?"
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
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Post by Doink »

They're just naive that way, I guess. It'll take them a while to completely understand human nature. It's like Nip said that one time: "Liberalism: the triumph of wishful thinking over experience."
Both a heart and a brain are necessary for survival. Without one, the other will quickly perish.

"I decline to accept the end of man [...] Man will not only endure, but prevail...." - William Faulkner

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Post by Shyal_malkes »

well, I agree that humanity is capable of many things.

weather it is actually intelligent or not is still in question sometimes,
at least to me it is.
I still say the doctor did it....

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Post by Aurrin »

RHJunior wrote:Add to that the fact that a gift, especially an extravagant one, can be percieved as an insult. Having an alien race drop out of the blue and start handing out extraterrestrial charity would be a debilitating blow to the pride of the human race... and a terrible insult to humanity's intelligence and capability.
RHJunior wrote:Yes, interaction with another culture will cause upheaval and conflict. But it is the only moral course of action to take, because to refuse to interact with them is to treat them as inferiors, and to deny them whatever benefits they might glean from our society...
Think about it a few minutes. I shouldn't even have to point this one out.
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Post by RHJunior »

Aurrin wrote:
RHJunior wrote:Add to that the fact that a gift, especially an extravagant one, can be percieved as an insult. Having an alien race drop out of the blue and start handing out extraterrestrial charity would be a debilitating blow to the pride of the human race... and a terrible insult to humanity's intelligence and capability.
RHJunior wrote:Yes, interaction with another culture will cause upheaval and conflict. But it is the only moral course of action to take, because to refuse to interact with them is to treat them as inferiors, and to deny them whatever benefits they might glean from our society...
Think about it a few minutes. I shouldn't even have to point this one out.
You're fabricating a conflict where there is none.

There's a vast difference between opening contact with another society and trading with them as equals, and descending from on high and offering them largesse in exchange for legal subjugation. I am going to be incredibly depressed if you cannot see the difference.

Mind, individual charity as a voluntary ethic is good. <I>Charity as a governmental diplomatic policy is not.</i> Allow me to enumerate why:

The recipient can have one of three negative responses: a sense of entitlement to that charity, guilt and resentment over imagined expecations that come with that charity, or worst of all--- and this we have seen in the Mideast IRL--- the misperception of charity as a sign of weakness..... or paranoia, wondering what influence the "charitable" government is attempting to buy.

The GIVER can also have several possible negative responses... the most common being a sense of insult and even outrage---and a growing hardening of the heart--- when their generosity is greeted with hostility, or is swiftly forgotten by the next generation. If not this, then an attitude of condescension towards the recipient for being so pitiful and benighted, or even a sense that they have a <I>right</i> to influence over those they have aided so many times before.There is also the matter of the growing bitterness of the taxpayers in the society for being coerced to hand over more and more of their hard-earned paycheck to moochers and ingrates.

It is better for all parties concerned if any exchange of cultures that goes on is 1)voluntary and 2)capitalistic. The weaker society WILL be at an initial disadvantage in the marketplace... but even a notably primitive society will have goods, services, and resources to trade, if nothing more than cheap labor and cultural/ethnic novelty. And if that "primitive" society is a free, capitalist society (or at least has a reasonable collective IQ) it will swiftly reinvest what it gains from the more advanced one and soon be competing on an equal footing. (It's practically been the cultural model for Japan for the last century. All other points aside, from 1900 to the 1940s they rapidly acclimated to western technology and science. In the 1950s, after the War, they were the product-quality equivalent of Taiwan. By the end of the 20th century they were doing better than Europe and giving America a run for its money....)

What we are talking about, here, is the difference between open trade, and coercive charity.
"What was that popping noise ?"
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
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Post by Doink »

Does anyone mind if I introduce this debate to the Shivae Studios forum? I'd be willing to transfer records of the debate between forums to link the debate between the two forums.
Both a heart and a brain are necessary for survival. Without one, the other will quickly perish.

"I decline to accept the end of man [...] Man will not only endure, but prevail...." - William Faulkner

"I can say—not as a patriotic bromide, but with full knowledge of the necessary metaphysical, epistemological, ethical, political and aesthetic roots—that the United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world." - Ayn Rand

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Post by Aurrin »

I fabricate nothing. The words are yours.

And that may be what you're talking about, but if a big enough gap exists, then there is no difference between 'trade' and charity, simply because the less-developed society really has next to nothing to offer. The Rac'cona and Humans are not an example of such, but there are plenty of others.
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Post by Doink »

But can the Cyantian-Terran relationship be counted as such?
Both a heart and a brain are necessary for survival. Without one, the other will quickly perish.

"I decline to accept the end of man [...] Man will not only endure, but prevail...." - William Faulkner

"I can say—not as a patriotic bromide, but with full knowledge of the necessary metaphysical, epistemological, ethical, political and aesthetic roots—that the United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world." - Ayn Rand

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Post by CasVeg »

RHJr & SW13 wrote:Stuff
That sounds about right.


Doink,

It would probably be easier to just post a link to each thread in the other.
And, I don't mind.

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Post by UncleMonty »

Aurrin wrote:I fabricate nothing. The words are yours.

And that may be what you're talking about, but if a big enough gap exists, then there is no difference between 'trade' and charity, simply because the less-developed society really has next to nothing to offer. The Rac'cona and Humans are not an example of such, but there are plenty of others.
I'm sorry, but blatent misrepresentation of words irritates me.
The words were Ralph's, the twisted meaning was all yours.
Let me try to make this plain enough: Charity is instigated and controlled by the giver. Trade is instigated and controlled by both parties. In the extremely unlikely case that the less developed civilization has nothing at all to trade, then no trade will occur. Nothing in either direction - which is precisely what the good folks down at Star Trek studios would want.
Avoid those who speak badly of the people, for such wish to rule over you.

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Post by Doink »

But if I just posted a link, would people in this forum be able to respond to people from the other forum and vice versa?
Both a heart and a brain are necessary for survival. Without one, the other will quickly perish.

"I decline to accept the end of man [...] Man will not only endure, but prevail...." - William Faulkner

"I can say—not as a patriotic bromide, but with full knowledge of the necessary metaphysical, epistemological, ethical, political and aesthetic roots—that the United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world." - Ayn Rand

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Post by Aurrin »

UncleMonty wrote:I'm sorry, but blatent misrepresentation of words irritates me.
:lol:

I misrepresent nothing. Any and all representation is in the words themselves. Neither are they taken out of context. If they're contradictory, then so is the one who wrote them to start with.
UncleMonty wrote:The words were Ralph's, the twisted meaning was all yours.
Twisted meaning? Why, whatever do you mean? Is it now twisting the meaning of words simply to paste his own paragraphs? I left them in context, and everyone here could see where they came from.
UncleMonty wrote:Let me try to make this plain enough: Charity is instigated and controlled by the giver. Trade is instigated and controlled by both parties.
And exactly how much control do you think someone with the lower hand really has? You're seeing it from the top side, not the bottom. Oh, we'll just give them some control in it. That'll fix it! But that assumes they're so stupid that they don't realize you have the upper hand. When you have the upper hand, you control the trade whether you like it or not. It'd be just like if a group of aliens came down and started 'trading' us stuff so advanced it looked like magic for all we could discern for mining rights in the polar ice cap. Even if they're fair at all times... You KNOW who has the upper hand, and you KNOW you're not in control.
UncleMonty wrote:In the extremely unlikely case that the less developed civilization has nothing at all to trade, then no trade will occur.
And in such a case, it's better to just leave them alone.
UncleMonty wrote:Nothing in either direction - which is precisely what the good folks down at Star Trek studios would want.
Exactly.
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Post by Aurrin »

Doink wrote:But if I just posted a link, would people in this forum be able to respond to people from the other forum and vice versa?
Perhaps, but I'm not going to. I'm not going to keep replying at all. I can already see the majority of the forum is against me, and I'm not going to change anyone's opinion by continuing.

So don't bother replying to me.
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Post by Doink »

...Oh. I'm sorry you feel that way, Aurrin.
Both a heart and a brain are necessary for survival. Without one, the other will quickly perish.

"I decline to accept the end of man [...] Man will not only endure, but prevail...." - William Faulkner

"I can say—not as a patriotic bromide, but with full knowledge of the necessary metaphysical, epistemological, ethical, political and aesthetic roots—that the United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world." - Ayn Rand

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Post by Yuoofox »

[This isn't the start of a new RP. It's just a one-shot joke.]

Gail the Racconan housemaid passed through the hallway of the guest rooms. She had been recently hired to a newly constructed inn catering to the humans and giant animal-people visting from the planet Earth. It felt strange to her, catering to people so tall, but most of them were very friendly and courteous, so she enjoyed her job. As she walked through the hall, she paused at one of the doors. The door was open a crack, and she heard very strange music and a constant thudding noise. Her curiousity getting the best of her, she left her soap-and-towel cart and peered in. There was a fox-person inside. This fox was very big, just slightly smaller than the average human, he had tan fur, and he had very large ears, like a rabbit. He was wearing light clothes and funny-looking shoes, and he was standing in front of a box doing the weirdest dance she had ever seen! One second, he would be jumping up and down *STOMP, STOMP, STOMP*, then next he'd be kicking in the air, then he'd go back jumping up and down.

"What on Aerith is he doing?!" Gail thought to herself, "People from Earth sure are strange." She took a closer look at the box he was dancing in front of. It appeared to be some sort of human artifact (powered by electricity, as most of them are), and it was projecting sound as well as visual images of humans doing the same weird dance. The lead dancer inside the box was calling out, "And left! And right! And left! And right! Okay now, jumping jacks! ... Okay now, jog in place! Feel the burn! Lose the weight!"

Forgetting herself, Gail burst out laughing. The fox took notice of her, blushing as he pressed something that un-summoned the projections inside the box.

"I'm sorry," said Gail, stifiling a giggle, "But what exactly are you doing?"

The fox answered, "Oh, um. I'm doing my aerobics. It's how I keep myself healthy. It's exercise."

"Why don't you just walk or run outside?" she asked.

"Well, 'cause it's too hot outside, and... err, I like doing aerobics," the fox answered sheepishly. Gail's eyes grew a bit wider, but she said nothing. After giving an apology for intruding, she added more towels and soap to the room, and went on with her business, marveling and what strange customs people can have.

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Post by Yuoofox »

Dear Acme Bicycle Company,

It has been brought to my attention that you do custom orders for bicycles. Well, I have an unusual order for you. Please look at the blueprints I have provided for all the technical specifications, but here are the main points of the new line of bicycles I want:

* The model is quite similar to your RoughTrak mountain bikes, except that it is very miniaturized, on a scale of 1:16. Yes, I realize that this scale is smaller than even your children's bicycles. These bicycles will be for children and adults alike who have... certain height deficiencies.

* Also note the addition of the rear wheel cover, as well as the "tail basket." These modifications will help keep certain... foreign objects from being caught in the spokes and gears.

* Also note that the frame will have a mount point for a possible motor, powered by electricity... or some other form of energy.

I am willing to pre-order 10,000 of these bicycles, if you will allow me to pay you in gold rings.

Sincerely,



Hugh Mann

P.S. Do you know of a company that might manufacture custom bicycle helmets with ear holes?

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Post by The JAM »

Schwinn? Shimano? Benotto?

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Post by StrangeWulf13 »

Gesundheit. :P
I'm lost. I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait. Thanks.

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