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Expansionism vitually guarantees a violent confrontation. People keep records of borders and land ownership for extended periods of time; even if the border is expanded at a measly one foot per year, it will be noticed within a century or two. Eventually, you'll have some paranoid zealot scrape together an Army o' Righteousness to stamp out the Forces o' Evil that are growing behind the wall. As soon as someone realizes the swamp is growing, it will be treated like cancer.

Even if no rightious idiot tried to destroy the "evil within" the expanding swamp borders, what would stop the nearby landholding humans from trying to halt the expansion by means of drainage ditches, dams or levees? If this is tried, the Racs are going to have to either sabotage or try and defeat the barriers in order to keep the expansion going.....sooner or later their going to be discovered in the act and if they (humans) aren't killed the knowledge of the Racs existance will be confirmed.

What a viscious little cycle here.

Shaaruuk

Whatever reservations I had about the Open Traders are insignificant compared to the objections I have for this idea.

Putting aside the moral issues in forcing the people living around the Dire Swamp to leave their homes, it's simply impractical.

Most people, farmers especially, don't just up and leave at the first sign of trouble. They've put a lot of work and blood and sweat and tears into their land and will not abandon it that easily. They're going to stay and try to fight.

Maybe that means bringing in an outside mage to try to stop whatever's going on, and maybe discover the Seven Villages, or simply stay and end up being stuck there when the river is moved. That would leave people on that land when its added to the Seven Villages and cause all sorts of problems.

People aren't dumb. They'll put two and two together. Expanding mist + rumours of the Ring-Tailed Folk = Confirmation and conflict.

Logically, expansion can't go on forever. Sooner or later channels will be opened and this period of expansion will be a major stumbling block. Maybe even be seen as an act of war.

And neither of those plans will work. Expantion is out of the question, not all humans are dumb wits, they'd notice that the swamp is growning faster then it should. Traiding is more plausable, but attitudes would have to be altered by 'pionears' first, people from both species who are willing to mediate between the two cultures.

Problem is Astral, the question is whether or not simply doing nothing is a viable option. Short term, probably. Long term, probably not.

Another issue that the Rac-conan haven't probably considered is the possibility of the humans expanding into the swamp themselves. Farmers looking to expand their holdings might start draining the swamp and turning it into farmland.

In the end, isolation isn't a particularly good defense. Sooner or later, the rest of the world finds a way in.

They'd be better off if they started small scail. Befriend a few humans who are open minded enough to traid with them, gain 'mediators' amung the human culture so that they can start dispercing the rumers and suspsions surounding them.

And to start, overcome the hostility by having something really good to bring to the table. Money talks, and alot of the luxcraft they had would bring a premium on the open market outside. If they look for big markets where alot of strange people come and go, and diverse groups are the norm, then they stand a much better chance of opening up a steady trade.

One wonders if they have spies on the outside. You'd hate to draw attention, but there are still Racconans on the outside, right? You could recruit them, keep an eye on the humans, watch for changing attitudes... But the existence of slums indicates a society which is becoming too populous for its resources. That's a big problem, too.

No, the existence of slums does NOT indicate a society too populous for its resources. It indicates the simple reality that in any population, no matter the opportunities and liberties they are given, there are those who will soil their own nests.... and even those that do not will go through at least one point in their lives where they are in desperate financial straights. And necessity will make such people congregate together in common terrain. Those who strive, overcome. Those who simply wallow in their state will remain.

RHJunior wrote:No, the existence of slums does NOT indicate a society too populous for its resources. It indicates the simple reality that in any population, no matter the opportunities and liberties they are given, there are those who will soil their own nests.... and even those that do not will go through at least one point in their lives where they are in desperate financial straights. And necessity will make such people congregate together in common terrain. Those who strive, overcome. Those who simply wallow in their state will remain.

And those caught in the middle are the ones who are working from dawn to dusk just to get a crumb to eat, and to survive to the next day. Not every one who strives, overcomes. Sometimes it is all they can do to survive.

WELL HEYYYY there Werekitty......welcome back..(big hug)....we ain't heard from you in a looong while!!

Shaaruuk

I like the OT's, profit overcomes all.

SolidusRaccoon wrote:I like the OT's, profit overcomes all.

But beware, Solidus.

"The love of money is the root of all evil."

Personaly I think 'The fear of death and the posibility that nothing lays beyond that point' is quite posibly equal to money as a source of evil... or a very close second. Its ok to fear death, its only natural, but when you use that fear of death to tern people to your way of thinking or even worce, convince them that what is clearly an act of wrong will get them a free ticket to heaven, the fear of death just becomes a tool for controle over the mob *shiver* Just one of the many reasons I don't like religion. Faith is perfectly ok, it is an individuals opinion, rules by which they set their morals and way of life that can't be used to sway someone elses veiw of the world via 'Apocoliptic-isam'. But religion has caused / 'been used as an excuse for' some of the most vishious and bloodiest wars ever to scar the face of humanity

... how on earth did I get onto that line of enquiry? darn politics poluting my mind and stealing my thoughts! .. Oh look! Butterfly! *chases*

Aurrin wrote:

SolidusRaccoon wrote:I like the OT's, profit overcomes all.

But beware, Solidus.

"The love of money is the root of all evil."

All in moderation.

suppose they sent out a scout through the mist wall or through the swamp to search the perimeter of the mist wall and see just how many people are actually living on the other side that they would have to deal with, one person could keep relatively concealed, better then a troop would anyway.

they could also scout out any potential valuable resource areas nearby and see if expanding wasn't possible, that and if not the scout would then also be able to report about exactly where the humans were so they could decide on what to do about it, a lot of the problems with expansion is the assumption that they got humans right outside their back door.

SolidusRaccoon wrote:

Aurrin wrote:

SolidusRaccoon wrote:I like the OT's, profit overcomes all.

But beware, Solidus.

"The love of money is the root of all evil."

All in moderation.

And when have you ever known businesses to stop at moderation? In fact, I remember some lively political debates where everyone just about was denouncing moderation. Any trading to start with must be carefully monitored while the Rac'cona are in a vulnerable position, because they can't afford a slip-up.

Well it was mentioned that the OT's would start out small, Build trust and a relationship with the humans.

Sharuuk wrote:WELL HEYYYY there Werekitty......welcome back..(big hug)....we ain't heard from you in a looong while!!

Shaaruuk

Well I guess my forum title says it all.

I've just been lurking around.

maybe the humans outside the mistwall already know the rac cona are inside! they just leave them alone because...

1) the rac cona may be much more powerfull if they stuck ttogether

2) the rac cona have been behind the mist wall for so long and haven't really done much looting/raiding/invading/cursing/enchanting/kidnapping/killing of the people around and have generally just stayed there not making any trouble, so why bother them now?

3)the humans may have had enough of the senseless violence and such and are willing to discuss terms of peace once the rac cona stop being too scared to come out and play "we come in peace! shoot to kill sergent!"

OT.

hello there Werekitty!
stick around, I could always use a new friend or two!