Chain Reaction

[Anthony Lion]

It's quite simple. Our decimal system started by counting fingers (and thumbs) so it would be logical that their number system would be based in a similar way.

I agree.
You need a numerical system of some sort before you can do any operations on it.

Aurrin, what is so special about the number 6?

Anyone ever studied the Danish way of speaking numbers?
That's based on multiples of 20...
Here in Norway we call 20 a 'snes' (Not the Nintendo)

I once programmed in assembly on the DEc PDP-11/750 during a course.
What was special then wasn't that the operators were switched about compared to assembler on other computers, but that it used Octal.
The teacher said that it had been selected by som manager or other idiot because it was so close to Decimal.
Yeah, right!
0 - 7 / 0 - 9
8 - 63 / 10 - 99
64 - 511 / 100 - 999

Gosh, those are similar... NOT!

[The JAM]

[...unWARP!!!]

Good evening.


The Mayan and Aztec numbering systems were also base-20.

AND they invented the Zero as well


The Rac Conian might use base-16, if they have 8 fingers and 8 toes.


I once came up with the "pronunciation" of the hexadecimal numbers, in English and Spanish. Once you reach 9 and go to F, you'd say:

9 - nine
A - Ah (not long A, so as not to confuse with "eight")
B - Bee
C - Cee
D - Dee
E - Ee
F - Eff
10 - ten

Now watch what I did when you reach 19-20:

19 - nineteen
1A - ah-teen
1B - bee-teen
1C - cee-teen
1D - dee-teen
1E - ee-teen
1F - eff-teen
20 - twenty

90-100 is similar:

90 - ninety
A0 - ah-ty
B0 - bee-ty
C0 - cee-ty
D0 - dee-ty
E0 - ee-ty
F0 - eff-ty
100 - one hundred

The hundred and thousand numbers would use the same rules as 1-9. So the number FFFF would be pronounced:

Eff thousand eff hundred eff-ty eff.


I'm just being silly.

[SolidusRaccoon]

And this is diffrent from the way you normally are?

[RHJunior]

Actually, their culture is effectively an emergent one from a primarily human-dominated culture, so their numeric system is base 10.

[Squeaky Bunny]

[...unWARP!!!]

Good evening.


The Mayan and Aztec numbering systems were also base-20.

AND they invented the Zero as well


The Rac Conian might use base-16, if they have 8 fingers and 8 toes.

I think the arabs laid claim to the zero, but I suppose it was all for naught.

I can understand the use of base 20 as it would be all fingers, thumbs and toes.

[Squirrelly61104]

The first self-contained(in one chip) microprocessor

As I recall, this processor was not self contained on one 'chip'.
It was various electronic components layed out on a mother board.
Intensly old school.

[Aurrin]

Aurrin, what is so special about the number 6?

Nothing, other than that it is a small number that is commonly found when dealing with small numbers. But 12 divides cleanly into 4 common numbers, whereas 10 only divides cleanly into 2 common numbers (2,5).

[Ann Vole]

Actually, their culture is effectively an emergent one from a primarily human-dominated culture, so their numeric system is base 10.

Hmm, the most common use for numbers would likely be chapter and verse numberings in the sacred texts. Other determors of base or psudo -base (english has a unique name for numbers up to 12 then -teens them) is the number of letters in their alphabet when those letters are duel purpose (counting symbols and language symbols) It was said that Raconan has 44 sounds and I am not sure how many runes/characters in their language (26? 52? 44?) but that might have been the number. Lots of cultures take 40 as a special number especialy when it comes to number of days and looking at calander systems, it does seem to have special abilities to "line up" with earth natural events. If the Raconan have 8 fingers and thumbs, they might have developed an 8 x 5 numbering system in the past and with the base ten culture being imposed, the extra number names just went out of use. But back to the above quote, maybe they never had numbers before, although I doubt it because even some birds know when the wrong number of eggs are in the nest (cow birds and coo-coos lay eggs in other birds nests and some birds can tell, othrs can't) so counting in natural activity in many animal brains and I would think the pre-human-culture Raconan's would have a basic numbering system of some sort.

[CasVeg]

Actually, 6 is a perfect number, among other things.

[CasVeg]

Hmm, the most common use for numbers would likely be. . .

Ann Vole, you are thinking too much.

This is from a guy who emmensely enjoys overanalyzing things to death and beyond.

You just. . .<i>no!</i>

[Ann Vole]

Ann Vole, you are thinking too much.

Yes that is a fault of mine! I am especialy interested in non-human use of abstract symbolism like language and numbers and dates so I have looked at early human systems to try to figure out how they developed things and try to imagine how non-humans (animals, space aliens, self developing AI, Raconans) would develop their abstracts given their experience. My own web comic has lots of useless information developed on the history of my non-humans' numbering systems, grammer, expressions, traditions, supersitions, calenders, etc. I hope to have a labyrinth of informational pages for the enjoyment of geeks like me. (I was even trying to determine which characters are left/right handed or amidexrus in TOTQ)

[Cory_finch]

Hmm, I know that there was a base 6 system at one point, and that our measurements of time derive from it.

My own little analysis of the sword so far though. Dragons tail fractal with random variation implemented at each iteration. Logic gates are among this random variation.

Okay scratch that. The variation within each iteration can't be random. To low of a probablility for anything to happen at all. So something must be controlling the variation at each level.

Hmm, so each enchantment provides an 'allele', the fractal itself just acts as compression and control. So this massive strand of runes folds up on itself like DNA. The logic gates would have been added in and attatched themselves at repetetive points. Thus providing a massive decsision tree, with no design or order. This means that the triggers behing whats going to happen are psuedorandom. That's valid, connectionist networks work that way. But unless the sword has some sort of back propogation set up the triggers will remain psuedorandom. It might have those though, the bond suggests some degree of adaptability. But then I don't really know how a bond normally works, that might be normal behaviour.

As far as the power source for the sword goes, it should be kept in mind that it had a lot of enchantments in it, even if very small, they add up.


I have just written a half page analysis of something that fails to exist, using any number of terms that nobody will understand. I must go wallow in my nerdom now.

I do love that RH manages to write fantasy in such a way that it can be analysed though.

[CasVeg]

I am especialy interested in non-human use of abstract symbolism like language and numbers and dates so I have looked at early human systems to try to figure out how they developed things and try to imagine how non-humans (animals, space aliens, self developing AI, Raconans) would develop their abstracts given their experience.

You will want to read <u>Chulo - Life Among the Coatimundis</u>, by Bil Gilbert. Here's a tasty sample from page 108:

The first animal to come upon the stash would begin to grunt, "I have found carrion [which is how chulos spoke of dog food] in some quantity."

[CasVeg]

I have just written a half page analysis of something that fails to exist, using any number of terms that nobody will understand. I must go wallow in my nerdom now.

I understood everything you said and identified some very subtle flaws in your analysis. (For example, pseudorandom numbers <i>require</i> the output to be used as input.)

You have just been out-nerded.

[Anthony Lion]

Actually, 6 is a perfect number, among other things.

Still doesn't give it any significance when deciding on a numerical system.

And if it was, then 2 would be even more important as it's the only EVEN Prime. Now isn't that ODD?
(And no one uses binary in day to day business, except for us Nerds)

When creating a system, it's practicality which wins out, not how much it can make a maths professor giggle...

Incidentally, the japanese symbol for 5 can also mean Perfect.

[The JAM]

[...unWARP!!!]

Good evening.

Hmm, I know that there was a base 6 system at one point, and that our measurements of time derive from it.

Yes, it was invented by the Sumerians, though it wasn't so much a base-6, but a base-60.


In Hebrew culture, the perfect number is 7, and its multiples. The number 6 is the imperfect number, along with its multiples as well. I once read a book that explained practically every number in the Bible and how they all fit in to the passages they appeared in.

[CasVeg]

Incidentally, the japanese symbol for 5 can also mean Perfect.

Thank you.

And the Japanese word for "four" is a homonym for "death".

[CasVeg]

In Hebrew culture, the perfect number is 7, and its multiples. The number 6 is the imperfect number, along with its multiples as well.

What would that make 42?

Anyway, that's not what I was talking about. I was refering to a mathematical, not symbolic, property. 6 is a perfect number because it is the sum of its factors (1 + 2 + 3 = 6). 28 is also a perfect number, as is 496.

[Cory_finch]

Although I'm kind of disappointed it seems there's no AI...

I don't get why you all seem to think there isn't an AI. The sword would seem to be able to detect when Quentyn is in trouble, react to such, and it also has a sophisticated navigation system. Artificial intelligence isn't necesarily very complex. Video games have them. Heck even Pong has one. Otherwise the computer controlled paddle would just move back and forth randomly/repetatively.


Oh, and CasVeg. I never said it was a psuedorandom number generator. I said it was psuedorandom. If you give it the same input you get the same output. The random part comes in because the input is too complex for you to be sure of the output. Dice and roullete tables work that way. For that matter, so does flipping a coin. The sword is technically controllable though, in the same sense that you can cheat a coin flip. (Something I'm fairly good at, I can do a 60-40 split.)

Wait, you understood what I meant by a connectionist network?

[CasVeg]

Of course. . . Even pseudorandom generators can be seeded. (I wonder why I didn't think of that.) Although I would add that feeding the system back into itself could disrupt the direct connection between input and output and make the sword even more upredictable. (The next state of the system would also be reliant on its current state, not just the input.)

Wait, you understood what I meant by a connectionist network?

After about ten seconds of research, yes.