Wow, just wow Monday the 14th

[DracoDei]

AURRIN YOU PROBABLY WANT TO SKIP THIS POST!

As for Kit n Kay with Nip and Tuck..... >_< Okay, you just took Solidus' medal for most disturbing post material. Please, never again speak of that, even in jest.

Ok, I must admit in shame that in some mis-spent moments of my life I have actually seen Kit n Kay... for those of you who are not familiar with it, let me just summarize as follows: Sex, lots and lots of sex... all of it monogamous and heterosexual as far as I remember...
The theology in it is definitely not Christian, but there is too much emphasis on sex for theology to get much play!
This having been said I will point out two things:
1.) In many ways the said crossover has already happened IMHO in most regards as far as impact goes... Remember the strip where one of the Tod brothers walked in on Ma and Pa? (see also some of my comments defending the scene with Ben and Lily in bed together the morning after the wedding)
2.) While I find KnK to be... "questionable" in its content, I must also point out that, as far as I can see, it is NOT the qualities to be found in it that intrensically make it so, for the most part. The attitudes towards sex, while they emphasize it a bit much, are in fact very much what I would think the world would be like if Adam and Eve had not Fallen. No nudity taboos, etc etc. all this is to say that it major themes are ones that are "only" problematic for the feelings that they create in a fallen human. Ralph, however, handled these issues in the aforementioned strips both much more tastefully, and much more realistically.

<Still ashamed of his past, but not willing to let that get in the way of accurate analysis!>

[Zorro]

bigdude

You know, the two most "spiritually aware" series that I've seen on the web are also the two best: TOTQ and "Jack"

Hmmm. Wonder how much of a fan base cross over there is here.
Both have strong spiritual foundations. Both have Christian roots. Yet the two are radically differant.
I think it helps that both artists are very good storytellers, who have improved with experience.

Of course, fan base crossover is the only likely crossover.
I could no more imagine a Jack/Questor cross over than I could imagine a Nip and Tuck/Kit and Kay Boodle cross over.

Well I am one of them.

[Squirrelly61104]

The Kit and Kay comment was just a moment of hyperbole.
Perhaps a better one would have been "Quentyn and Duke Nukem doing a team up".
No offence intended.

[Astral]

As for Kit n Kay with Nip and Tuck..... >_< Okay, you just took Solidus' medal for most disturbing post material. Please, never again speak of that, even in jest.

The idea is most disterbing... grate now I got images.

[SolidusRaccoon]

As for Kit n Kay with Nip and Tuck..... >_< Okay, you just took Solidus' medal for most disturbing post material. Please, never again speak of that, even in jest.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I lost.

[Astral]

You'll have to think of something 'realy' disterbing to claw back your title!

[CasVeg]

And the MistWall would have gone down for a while almost certainly... which would have had long reaching stratigic consequences quite possibly.

Now that you've brought it up, how do we know that the mistwall <i>hasn't</i> come down, however briefly?

[DracoDei]

The Kit and Kay comment was just a moment of hyperbole.

I think I knew that (although with my memory, and poor social calibration it is hard for me to be sure). I was merely pointing out that it wouldn't be so... fractious a meeting as had been described.

Perhaps a better one would have been "Quentyn and Duke Nukem doing a team up".

That is patently rediculous!
I other words: GOOD ONE!

No offence intended.

Nor did I take any offense.
Detailed explaination follows:
I didn't think anything the less of you; I just was making obscure connections (such as I am wont to do). This is by no means a unique skill on these boards, which is part of the reason I like them so much, "...Iron sharpens iron..." and all that. Different people have different insights and areas of expertise, and degrees of experience, and thus ideas need to cross-pollinate. I have trouble keeping track of names, even on-line, and so I don't know how much you tend to do that sort of thing, either as an active contributer or as an occasional poster from the sidelines. Of course, if you are a complete lurker (but interested reader) on such matters, then I would have no way of knowing you were gaining something at all...

[Astral]

And the MistWall would have gone down for a while almost certainly... which would have had long reaching stratigic consequences quite possibly.

Now that you've brought it up, how do we know that the mistwall <i>hasn't</i> come down, however briefly?

It'd be realy ironic if the storm was realted to the actions of the Twelve
... hay, I can dream can't I?

[Squirrelly61104]

how do we know that the mistwall hasn't come down

I think it is unlikely such a catastrophic event is in the cards in the near future.
Remember, this is "Tales of the Questor", and right now our little questor isn't even able to fight off a single bogey, let alone deal with the collapse of his peoples main line of defence.
I foresee a longish recovery for Quentyn, wherein various loose ends get tied up, tied up ends get loosened, and charecter development takes place.
I just happened to think, the logical person for Quentyn to be telling his story to is his young sooth-scribe friend.
Imagine a civilians reaction to the matter of fact question "Have you ever known you were going to die?"
Quentyns hair turns white when the stag licks it. What happens to his ear when the bogey bites it?

As a final note, if that Stag keeps licking Quentyn hair, they're gonna start calling him Whitey.
If I ever find out what mythical creature has been grazing on my hairline, they're gonna call it "Extinct".

[Ransom Returns]

Many things about Jack (aside from the obvious) trouble me. Salvation in Jack is obtained through recognizing one's sin and repenting. Actually pretty Biblical in that respect. But aside from no mention (an angel might have refered to Jesus as "Savior" once, I'm not sure) of the Cross as the vehicle for atonement, odd problems tend to pile up. People can and do repent in Hell, but are sent to earth to "try again." Simlar for those in Purgatory, a complete re-writing of the Catholic view here (speaking as a Baptist with Catholic family). So in a sense we get a mish mash of Hinduism and Catholicism.

Oddly enough for all the darkness, there's (IMHO) an impled universalism in Jack. At least that's what I've gathered. Note the current storyline (if you still read it, I'm not going to go into in depth description).

Another problem I have is with the portrayal of heaven itself. But I shouldn't knock Jack too much for this, because it seems common these days. Heaven in Jack gives each person his own "room" with which to create what they want. In one case a women creates a horrible world, in hopes that her perverted boyfriend will here about it and repent. Such ideas miss the point. Heaven is Heaven because God is there, and in His presence we find perfect fellowship, love, etc. Jack's heaven is something of a garden of earthly delights, or a self made Matrix.

But aside from that, and a few other things, I do admit I find the comic to be well written an engaging, though I think I have to agree it simply goes too far at times.

[Narnian]

Oddly enough for all the darkness, there's (IMHO) an impled universalism in Jack. At least that's what I've gathered.

It seems to have more in common with Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle's Inferno than Dante's.

BTW - where does "Ransom Returns" come from? Perelandra?

[LoneWolf23k]

Many things about Jack (aside from the obvious) trouble me. Salvation in Jack is obtained through recognizing one's sin and repenting. Actually pretty Biblical in that respect. But aside from no mention (an angel might have refered to Jesus as "Savior" once, I'm not sure) of the Cross as the vehicle for atonement, odd problems tend to pile up. People can and do repent in Hell, but are sent to earth to "try again." Simlar for those in Purgatory, a complete re-writing of the Catholic view here (speaking as a Baptist with Catholic family). So in a sense we get a mish mash of Hinduism and Catholicism.

Oddly enough for all the darkness, there's (IMHO) an impled universalism in Jack. At least that's what I've gathered. Note the current storyline (if you still read it, I'm not going to go into in depth description).

Another problem I have is with the portrayal of heaven itself. But I shouldn't knock Jack too much for this, because it seems common these days. Heaven in Jack gives each person his own "room" with which to create what they want. In one case a women creates a horrible world, in hopes that her perverted boyfriend will here about it and repent. Such ideas miss the point. Heaven is Heaven because God is there, and in His presence we find perfect fellowship, love, etc. Jack's heaven is something of a garden of earthly delights, or a self made Matrix.

But aside from that, and a few other things, I do admit I find the comic to be well written an engaging, though I think I have to agree it simply goes too far at times.

Well, I certainly don't mind the Universalism. And while there are individual rooms in Jack's Heaven, it's clear that people can walk freely through anyone's personal room, so it's not as if people isolate themselves. The rooms are essentially God's gift to the blessed; And those rooms tend to reflect the desires and needs of their owners. One woman wouldn't start working on hers until her husband died and joined her, while another was willing to subject herself to horrors out of love for her own boyfriend.

In terms of Hell, however, I think Jack's right on the money in terms of Hell. Dave Hopkins' portrayals of Hell do a better job of depicting the consequences of evil then any preacher's hellfire speech. Like Jack said: "Sometimes, I think it's the people who make this place crazy." Hell is Hell not because there are demons to torture you for your sins in life, but because everyone there is Evil and continue to do in Hell as they did in life: killers will kill, rapists will rape, abusers will abuse, and those who hate themselves continue to do so, while blaming others for their own self-hatred.

I think it says a lot that the scariest inhabitant of Hell in Jack is not Lucifer himself, but Drip, the Sin of Lust.

[Astral]

how do we know that the mistwall hasn't come down

I think it is unlikely such a catastrophic event is in the cards in the near future.
Remember, this is "Tales of the Questor", and right now our little questor isn't even able to fight off a single bogey, let alone deal with the collapse of his peoples main line of defence.
I foresee a longish recovery for Quentyn, wherein various loose ends get tied up, tied up ends get loosened, and charecter development takes place.

Nessie is also on her way to the sanctuary so I don't doubt there will be a sub plot when they run into one another some time soon. Otherwise the detore back to the swamp was a little pointless.

[SolidusRaccoon]

Pointless? Look at all the backstory and information were leanred about her. That alone was worth it.

[Astral]

True, but it was sorta pointless if she's never seen again. The preast thing made sence, it gave some insight onto what happened in the aftermath and was more focused on Quintyns troubles then the preasts mission. Besides, its too much of a coinsidence that she was headed for Sanctuary for there not to be some sort of sub plot running here.

[SolidusRaccoon]

All good things come to those who wait.

[Astral]

Mrrr *pout* I done wana wait, I wana know now

[Ransom Returns]

Ransom does refer to the Space Trilogy. The "returns" part refers to the fact that I lost my username awhile back

Well, I certainly don't mind the Universalism. And while there are individual rooms in Jack's Heaven, it's clear that people can walk freely through anyone's personal room, so it's not as if people isolate themselves. The rooms are essentially God's gift to the blessed; And those rooms tend to reflect the desires and needs of their owners. One woman wouldn't start working on hers until her husband died and joined her, while another was willing to subject herself to horrors out of love for her own boyfriend.

My concern was that it reflected the "meism" of the times. Heaven was simply what I want it to be etc. Rather I view it as perfect fellowship with God.

On that note, however, I actually agree with you on his portrayal of hell.

[Astral]

"There is no hell with out street mimes"