Do we call ourselves wizards?

Canis_lupus · Post by **Canis_lupus** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:46 am

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/ ... rotest.php

More crazy HP hating parents.

NydaLynn · Post by **NydaLynn** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:25 am

Canis_lupus wrote:http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/ ... rotest.php

More crazy HP hating parents.

I'm surprised it's still such a hot-button issue. Don't people have anything better to do? Surely there are more harmful things in this world than fiction novels.
What is that strange mold in the bathroom, for instance?... is the the food in the cafeteria ok?... do we have enough (teachers/ up to date books/nurses/funding/quality classes)? Do we have qualified staff? Is the school building safe?

Surely these rank higher than wheather a highly -fictional- book might, possibly, in a round about way, promote a differing personal belief system than one parent.

Face it. Only you can teach your kids what you believe. And then they grow up, go off into the wide-wide world, and decide what they believe for themselves. If they decide to go off on a tangent... tough cookies.

You want to shield them from all the evils of the world? Have them read only non-fiction,watch no television, and ban all movies that are above a G rating until they are 18 years old or have moved out of your house? Be my guest, they are your children... However, not every child is yours.

I propose that physical school saftey and actual academics is more important at this stage than wheather a currently popular fiction book should be blacklisted from the school library on such weak grounds.

Mikhail Dragoslav · Post by **Mikhail Dragoslav** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:19 am

Deckard Canine wrote:But as for those who worked hard to be called wizards, I don't think they should be so pained to have that title replaced, as long as it's a title you have to work equally hard to get.

I think it's because you worked so hard to acheive something, then that thing changes on you. They worked hard to become wizards. They didn't work to be Luxists or scientists. If the name changes, then it's like the work you did to acheive your title becomes invalidated by the change. They wouldn't have done any work to become a scientist, it was just automatically conferred on them. It's not an entirely logical feeling, but not unheard of.

It reminds me of when Quentyn became Questor because no one else wanted the job. It felt like it cheapened the victory to Quentyn though he-- rather quickly--got over it.

Canis_lupus · Post by **Canis_lupus** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:10 pm

NydaLynn wrote:
Canis_lupus wrote:http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/ ... rotest.php

More crazy HP hating parents.
I'm surprised it's still such a hot-button issue. Don't people have anything better to do? Surely there are more harmful things in this world than fiction novels.
What is that strange mold in the bathroom, for instance?... is the the food in the cafeteria ok?... do we have enough (teachers/ up to date books/nurses/funding/quality classes)? Do we have qualified staff? Is the school building safe?

Surely these rank higher than wheather a highly -fictional- book might, possibly, in a round about way, promote a differing personal belief system than one parent.
Face it. Only you can teach your kids what you believe. And then they grow up, go off into the wide-wide world, and decide what they believe for themselves. If they decide to go off on a tangent... tough cookies.

You want to shield them from all the evils of the world? Have them read only non-fiction,watch no television, and ban all movies that are above a G rating until they are 18 years old or have moved out of your house? Be my guest, they are your children... However, not every child is yours.

I propose that physical school saftey and actual academics is more important at this stage than wheather a currently popular fiction book should be blacklisted from the school library on such weak grounds.

Yes but doing those things dont get media attention.

Axelgear · Post by **Axelgear** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:09 pm

Not to mention that they would require an increase in taxes. Lo' and behold the moment you suggest people PAY for something, it's suddenly an issue...

RHJunior · Post by **RHJunior** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:39 pm

More money has never solved the public schooling problem.

FACT: In districts where the school voucher program was instituted, several private schools <I>had to refund a portion of the money received per student, because they literally could not spend it all.</i> They met their budget, filled all their financial necessities, and still had nearly half the money left over.

The public schools are bloated with bureaucrats and staffed with unaccountable, overpaid union cardholders who can't even teach at their given grade level. They need two things: a massive round of firings, and an introduction of competition to the system..... vouchers for private and homeschooled kids.

Axelgear · Post by **Axelgear** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:25 pm

I've been Private Schooled since I went to school in the first place. Maybe instead of Public Schools there could be subsidies for Private Schools? This way, the Private Schools have to compete for funding and therefore it's more likely they'll encourage the success of pupils instead of not caring. Once you make the job market competitive (And effectively disband unions), conditions improve drastically. It's why Canadian Private Schools are usually of good quality (And our Public Schools are at least average. A lot of people are as thick as cow hide but that's not schooling, humans as a general rule have to have a certain number of idiots; law of averages). This is a place where competition does very well.

Then again, I don't think Unions are ALL bad (Though as a general rule... They REALLY are). I've dealt a lot with what goes on with the QP, the largest Union in Ontario, and I must say it's a double-edged sword. The good side is that they have repeatedly fought against groups like York University who have a reputation as an oppressive corporation. They argued them up to a 5% annual raise for Teaching Assistants from 1% (Which is more than the 3% cost of living increase people wanted), which, to say the least, is a good thing. However, by the same token, it has its share of stupid militants within it who have actually advocated incredibly stupid things like attempting to influence politics (Against Union Rules) and try and get even MORE minority scholarships (Which already outnumber open scholarships).

So... Yeah, just tossing in my two cents really. I agree with Ralph about abolishing unions, but home schooling is another double edged sword: It allows parents to include darker morality in teachings (Racism, sexism, religious persecution... Schools are supposed to offer unbiased viewpoints) and removes checkpoints. You'd need to implement a complex system to avoid such issues, but it's not impossible.

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:42 pm

Canis_lupus wrote:http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/ ... rotest.php

More crazy HP hating parents.

The idea that HP teaches kids the occult is ludicrous.. I've tried casting "Wingardium Leviosa", and never gotten anything out of it.

Mind you, perhaps I needed more then an ordinary stick for a wand.

And don't get me started on how D&D teaches real magic. If it did, I would've "Charm Person"ed my way to a better job ages ago.

Wayfarer · Post by **Wayfarer** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:08 pm

Axelgear wrote:I agree with Ralph about abolishing unions, but home schooling is another double edged sword: It allows parents to include darker morality in teachings (Racism, sexism, religious persecution... Schools are supposed to offer unbiased viewpoints) and removes checkpoints. You'd need to implement a complex system to avoid such issues, but it's not impossible.

It may be that they're supposed to offer unbiased viewpoints... but I'm pretty nearly convinced that there is no such thing. Any form of teaching - public, private, or at home - is going to include a bias, a viewpoint, a morality. This is true of necessity: you teach what you take to be important, to be valuable, and this judgment of value is going to imply a standard of value - that is, a moral. (Even simply teaching something because it's practical, for instance, implies that practicality has worth and therefore should be taught. Which may very well be true. But the value judgment of worth is still there, as are the standards by which one evaluates.)

So I'd say there's no such thing as value-neutral teaching. And to this I would add that I consider it questionable that homeschooling has any greater potential for including "darker" morality than public schools. From my own perspective (though I don't expect it to constitute highly weighty evidence, and I know the situation is not universal), I feel my parents are and have proved themselves to be far more trustworthy than a school board would be (though no, I wasn't homeschooled). But beyond that, there remains the question of what standard one is using to decide what's moral. I personally believe there is a right answer to this. I also think that a school board, a teacher, or even the public to which they are supposed to be accountable, can miss it in one way or another about as easily as an individual parent.

So yeah... it's taking a bit of a tangent... but there are so many others anyway: what's one more?

Agvulpine · Post by **Agvulpine** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:48 pm

Wanderwolf wrote:American Heritage Dictionary:

Magic: n.

1. The art that purports to control or forecast natural events, effects, or forces by invoking the supernatural.

...

As for "wizard", yes, one of the definitions is that of a person who uses magic; that definition developed in 1550. It also, in its first definition, means anyone who's very skilled (informal version is "wiz" or "whiz"), and derives from the Middle English word wys, meaning "wise". Literally, "one who knows".

...

Ok. So lets step back again.

A Wizard is someone who masters the skill of Magic.

Magic is the invoking of the Supernatural.

Well then, kids. I see absolutely no problem with the title of Wizard. It pertains perfectly to the story, and includes those who master Lux and Luxcraft.

Consider this!

The natural is, well, the natural. It is everything around us that occurs naturally, or otherwise, normally within nature.

The supernatural is just as it says, super-natural. It is everything that is both natural but super aswell. While Lux is natural, the manipulation of Lux is supernatural, as it permits the manipulation of nature in unordinary and amazing ways.

I repeat. Natural = Normal Occurrences in Nature. Supernatural = Abnormal Occurances in Nature.
The Rac Conan manipulate Natural Lux to attain Supernatural results. (such as floating biscuits)

If this doesn't convince you, consider other words such as superhuman and superelasticity. These are no less human or elastic than if they weren't "super".

To conclude: I challenge that the natural occurrence of Lux and its use is in fact Magic. It is a power in nature which permits the supernatural. The supernatural is a skill trained by those highly educated Wizards who have studied the Science and graduated with honors.

Good day.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:17 pm

....anyone else get the feeling this thread is shortly going to resemble the debate in the comic?

Axelgear · Post by **Axelgear** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:40 am

Some of us worked very hard filling out our application form to become a member of this forum....

Heh heh, yeah...

Deckard Canine · Post by **Deckard Canine** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:33 am

AGV's distinction won't do. Yes, floating baskets don't occur without sapient intervention, but neither do baskets themselves. Better yet, for a modern RL example, consider artificially created elements. Is J.T. Seaborg a wizard?

Wanderwolf · Post by **Wanderwolf** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:33 am

Deckard Canine wrote:WW, do you come from or have family in Lithuania? I just find it odd that you would cite that language in particular.

<bemused> Oddly, the online dictionary just happened to reference the Lithuanian etymology. No, no Lithuanian. German, Prussian, English, Scottish, Cherokee Indian (with no provable ancestress), but no Lithuanian.

Yours truly,

The wolfishly-diverse,

Wanderer

Wanderwolf · Post by **Wanderwolf** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:12 am

RHJunior wrote:The public schools are bloated with bureaucrats and staffed with unaccountable, overpaid union cardholders who can't even teach at their given grade level. They need two things: a massive round of firings, and an introduction of competition to the system..... vouchers for private and homeschooled kids.

I don't entirely agree, myself. Down here in Texas, there's a paucity of trained educators; the state teachers' association is even looking to merge with another union, because they don't have enough members to survive. (The state association has 44,500 paying members, total.)

As for vouchers, we already have them in Cleveland (where they mostly pay for Catholic schools) and Milwaukee (where they're funded by property taxes). They're not producing competition so far, and it's been more than ten years.

Yours truly,

The not-disagreeing-about-some-bureaucrats,

Wanderer

Axelgear · Post by **Axelgear** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:43 am

The Teachers Union in Canada is awful as far as I'm concerned. Not so much for what they do in terms of employment, but rather in investment. They've invested about 10 billion dollars from the teachers retirement fund program in Cigarette Companies, Profilactic Makers, and Malls, all the things they're told to teach students to avoid wasting time on.

The JAM · Post by **The JAM** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:23 am

Don't even get me started about what some public school teachers are doing in Oaxaca...oi...

Wanderwolf · Post by **Wanderwolf** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:28 am

Yiddish, J.A.M.?

It's no better here. My secondary-school band teacher fled to Brazil after embezzling from the band program. Since this was at a private religious school, we're not talking chump change, either; with what he left behind, they bought new instruments, updated the band room, and took the entire band to Wet 'n' Wild.

Yours truly,

The wolfish,

Wanderer

NydaLynn · Post by **NydaLynn** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:51 am

Deckard Canine wrote:AGV's distinction won't do. Yes, floating baskets don't occur without sapient intervention, but neither do baskets themselves. Better yet, for a modern RL example, consider artificially created elements. Is J.T. Seaborg a wizard?

Whoohoo! Does that mean I am a sorceress becuase I can create things, make them move, speak, and light them up like neon lights; even though you wouldn't see anything like it accuring naturally in real life? Sounds more mysterious than 'associate animator'