Comments on Pander

DDave · Post by **DDave** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 1:40 am

Howdy,Wow, thanks for the detailed comments! Let me try to answer you comments in turn.Artwork: I have returned to doing comics after basically a ten year layoff. I used to be on the ragged edge of "semi-pro" in the print comics world before I took a couple of detours in life. After ten years I am finding that my technique is shot to hell, but that other things have improved, such as my eye for line and composition. I appreciate your comments here, and I do feel that the art is improving, but I don't feel either "caught up" or "comfortable" with the art yet. Working on it.Webcam: I read a couple of news articles about webcam girls and the pressures they faced. This got me to thinking about consequences.... Eventually, Habibi should reveal more about her motivations.Comments: Sometimes the comments are harder to do than the comic. You always wonder how much to tip your hand. I am glad you enjoy them.Perpetual complainer: Comments always welcome, pro or con. As long as they are well reasoned, anyway

Blurb: Sorry for the confusion. I want to ground Pander in a very realistic sense of repercussions and reactions. However, there will be definitely glimpses into "The Unknown", and my conception of Pander has included that from the beginning. I had hoped to set the tone with the very first comic, which includes indications of what might be in store, but the story is definitely taking it's time to get to those elements. I wanted to focus on the characters first. Writing the blurb has been really hard, and I have revised it several times since the comic started. Time to take another look, I guess.Current predicament: Well, given that Habibi is the main character, one might guess that she survives the ordeal. It is the process of survival and what is lost/gain that is the open question.As for Deus Ex Machina, well, all I can say is that it is a time honored tradition. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">Thanks for reading!Best,Dave
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dDave
<A HREF="http://pander.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Pander. A webcomic.</A>

The Edwardian · Post by **The Edwardian** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:53 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by dDave:
Howdy,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Howdy, Howdy! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Webcam: I read a couple of news articles about webcam girls and the pressures they faced. This got me to thinking about consequences.... Eventually, Habibi should reveal more about her motivations.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I will be looking forward to that! It would be interesting to see how Habibi came up with the idea... I also wonder if there was a significant divergence between her 'Online Persona' and how she acted in High School... Being a 'Web-Cam Teaser' *and* a High School student brings up a few unsettling questions, that can only detract from the current story, so I will refrain, if you don't mind... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Comments: Sometimes the comments are harder to do than the comic. You always wonder how much to tip your hand. I am glad you enjoy them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is why I made it an issue that you not feel that you *should* put comments on every page. I enjoy them, but I prefer you keep the integrity of the story, rather than letting out too much. One of the pleasures of comics like yours is to keep us readers guessing... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Perpetual complainer: Comments always welcome, pro or con. As long as they are well reasoned, anyway

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I intend to be well-reasoned, but I would also like to stress that anything I say, pro or con, is my opinion. How much weight you place with that opinion is you own process, but since I don't publish my own Web-Comic, nor am I an accomplished-published mystery writer, I would urge you not to place too much weight with my 'rantings'... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Blurb: Sorry for the confusion. I want to ground Pander in a very realistic sense of repercussions and reactions. However, there will be definitely glimpses into "The Unknown", and my conception of Pander has included that from the beginning. I had hoped to set the tone with the very first comic, which includes indications of what might be in store, but the story is definitely taking it's time to get to those elements. I wanted to focus on the characters first.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> HHmn... I see what you mean... Your first ever <A HREF="http://pander.keenspace.com/d/20011111.html" TARGET=_blank>panel</A> of Pander should have stressed to me the 'Meta-Realistic' nature of the story... Unfortunately, I completely ignored that first panel for the first comic <A HREF="http://pander.keenspace.com/d/20011112.html" TARGET=_blank>page</A>, and all the subsequent pages until the introduction of Gri and Masuta only reinforced to me the 'Realistic' nature of the Pander story... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Writing the blurb has been really hard, and I have revised it several times since the comic started. Time to take another look, I guess.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The current wording:Pander is the chronicle of one girl and her brushes with the obscure and dangerous edges of existance. It's about power, knowledge, love and the price you pay.I think, convey what you are trying to get across in a subtle manner. Another interpretation for "The Unknown" is "the obscure and dangerous edges of existance". Personally and for the time being, I think you should leave the 'blurb' alone, especially if you are currently satified with it. It is probably too 'shallow' into the Pander storyline for you to start changing it now... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Current predicament: Well, given that Habibi is the main character, one might guess that she survives the ordeal. It is the process of survival and what is lost/gain that is the open question.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And it is that 'open question' that is causing me to rip stuffing out of my seat cushion in tense and agitated anticipation, waiting on its 'answer'...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Thanks for reading!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And thank *you* for creating!

DDave · Post by **DDave** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 4:37 am

Howdy, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Edwardian:
I intend to be well-reasoned, but I would also like to stress that anything I say, pro or con, is my opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gotcha. Still, I apreciate anything that is not a flame. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
HHmn... I see what you mean... Your first ever panel of Pander should have stressed to me the 'Meta-Realistic' nature of the story... Unfortunately, I completely ignored that first panel for the first comic page, and all the subsequent pages until the introduction of Gri and Masuta only reinforced to me the 'Realistic' nature of the Pander story...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry about the confusion. Rest assured, Pander is much more about people's reactions to the unusual than the unusual itself. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
I think you should leave the 'blurb' alone, especially if you are currently satified with it. It is probably too 'shallow' into the Pander storyline for you to start changing it now...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I will, for the time being. However, I constantly tinker with the character and story pages, so I am sure that some change to the blurb is in the offing eventually. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
And it is that 'open question' that is causing me to rip stseat cushion in tense and agitated anticipation, waiting on its 'answer'...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Heh. As Gibran says in The Prophet:"Your joy is your sorrow unmasked. And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears. And how else can it be? The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven? And is not the lute that soothes your spirit the very wood that was hollowed with knives? When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy. When you are sorrowful, look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight."Best,Dave
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dDave
<A HREF="http://pander.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Pander. A webcomic.</A>

DDave · Post by **DDave** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 4:42 am

Howdy,This message is simply to bump the reply counter to "1". Been having issues with double postings and deletions all afternoon which fried the correct reply count on this thread.Best,Dave------------------
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dDave
<A HREF="http://pander.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Pander. A webcomic.</A>

The Edwardian · Post by **The Edwardian** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 9:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by dDave:
Heh. As Gibran says in The Prophet:"Your joy is your sorrow unmasked. And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears. And how else can it be? The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven? And is not the lute that soothes your spirit the very wood that was hollowed with knives? When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy. When you are sorrowful, look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> dDave, Sorry, but I am 'spanging' off into a tangent. I am facinated with the above quote... Is it from a book entitled "The Prophet", and is "Gibran" the author or a character in the book?

DDave · Post by **DDave** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 9:33 am

Howdy, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Edwardian:
 I am facinated with the above quote... Is it from a book entitled "The Prophet", and is "Gibran" the author or a character in the book?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Correct. The Author is Kahlil Gibran, a lebanese author in the early part of this century. The Prophet is his most famous work and can be found <A HREF="http://www.columbia.edu/~gm84/gibran.html" TARGET=_blank>online</A>.It is an easy read, however I get something different, yet profound, out of it each time I read it. I encourage you to get your own copy - or better yet - do as I do and buy a copy for each person that is important to you.Best,Dave------------------
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dDave
<A HREF="http://pander.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Pander. A webcomic.</A>

The Edwardian · Post by **The Edwardian** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 10:15 am

Interesting... Very interesting...As I mentioned in another post, I am unfortunately badly hooked now on the current storyline, the "dark and gritty" twist this comic has taken. I am now on the 'edge' of my proverbial seat, waiting on what happens next...But without futher ado, my comments(opinions):- dDave, you seem overtly concerned about your artwork, and I am here to say that you shouldn't be. Suffice it to say that there are those that are better than your current technique, but also please accept that you are 'leaps and bounds' better that a good majority of other artists out there. Personally, I like your artwork, and I can see *much* potential for continual improvement, as long as you keep at it, and don't get too easily discouraged!- The storyline is intriguing, and only gets me mentally cogitating on how you possibly came up with the elements in their current configuration... I find that I am currently facinated with Habibi's character, and how in the *world* she first hit upon the idea of being a "Web-Cam Temptress". I hope, in the future of Pander, we will see some of this 'history'...- I seriously enjoy the comments you make on each comic, dDave. It adds another dimension to the comic when I can read what your thoughts where on the creative process of that comic and its panels. I hope that this does not become tiresome for you in the future, but on the other had, please do not feel compelled to add a note to *every* comic page if the muse does not strike you. I can understand when some comic pages just won't warrent comment...- Unfortunately, my friends and enemies call me a 'perpetual complainer', in that I seem quite capable of finding fault with anything and everything, and that nothing has ever appeared satifactory to me(much that I should talk, since I have never created anything of any particular significance, like a Web-Comic)...
Are you braced? It isn't that bad, actually... I have found some exception to the current 'blurb' you use on the Pander home site to explain to new readers the 'gist' of the Pander storyline:Pander is the chronicle of one girl and her brushes with the obscure and dangerous edges of existance. It's about power, knowledge, love and the price you pay.I do not know if it was your intention or not, but this 'blurb' gave me the impression that you wanted the Pander storyline to be as 'realistic' ("close to reality") as possible. You reinforce this concept in the comments you make in preceding comic pages, and succeed spectacularly in the art and dialog.
However, one page threw me off-kilter... The '20011228' comic page, where we are first introduced to the enigmatic characters of Gri and Masuta... With this page, the 'meta-realistic' element of Pander suddenly increases to what I consider a *huge* degree... With that comic page, the tone of the Pander storyline takes on a almost "X-Files" quality, in my opinion... So, have I interpreted the Pander 'blurb' wrong? Is 'existence' that Habibi currently lives in filled with the Unknown? ("More things in Heaven and Earth, than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio!") dDave, do you intend to give the readers tantilizing glimpses into the Pander Unknown?- With the above comment, I am now wondering what exactly is going to happen to Habibi in her current predicament?
Realistically, she is doomed, and the Pander comic will be *increadibly* short-lived, with Habibi's body being washed ashore on the San Francisco coastline, or...
Meta-Realistically, 'something' is going to open a 'can of "deus ex machina" Whup-Ass' on "Clem", and hopefully save our protagonist from any *serious* bodily injury...Currently, I am a little too dumb to see a possibility of a *Third* option, but I intend to be *very* surprised if such an occurrence happens!- Final Comment: dDave, you are doing a fine job, art and storywise. I love your artistic and story comments for each page, and I find the Sunday 'Dream Sequences' only add, rather than detract, from the story.Please keep up the great work! Pander is now bookmarked on my "Must Visit" list.

DDave · Post by **DDave** » Thu Jan 10, 2002 1:16 am

Howdy, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Freemage:
definitely a powerful work, and one I'm going to enjoy (even as I, too, rip the arms of the chair I'm reading it from off in anticipation).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey, thanks for reading! Glad you are enjoying Pander. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Try this link for starters: <A Href="http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/ ... TE>That is one of the articles that started this whole mess. I started thinking about ramifications of Habibi being in the center of attention and expectation. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Most of the girls do it for a combination of rush [snip] and profit (<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Habibi was in it for more of the former than the latter. Although she quickly got used to getting free goodies as well.

Best,Dave------------------
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dDave
<A HREF="http://pander.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Pander. A webcomic.</A>[This message has been edited by dDave (edited 01-10-2002).]

The Edwardian · Post by **The Edwardian** » Thu Jan 10, 2002 3:41 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Freemage:
Edwardian, the whole web-cam girl thing is HUGE these days, especially among teenage girls. Do a google search, and you'll be stunned. Try this link for starters: <A Href="http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/ ... UOTE>Oy! Thanks for the article link, Freemage! I knew the phenomenon was big, but I had no idea it was growing...I find it interesting that there appears to be a 'Double Standard', where the "camgirls" are infinitely more popular than the "camboys", but then I remember the demographic of the Internet population based on gender and age, and then I begin to understand...

Freemage · Post by **Freemage** » Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:41 pm

Wow. I was just passed the link to Pander during a bit of online chat; I can't even remember who it was that did this to me. I'm just glad they did.Strong art, strong storytelling, strong characterization... definitely a powerful work, and one I'm going to enjoy (even as I, too, rip the arms of the chair I'm reading it from off in anticipation).Edwardian, the whole web-cam girl thing is HUGE these days, especially among teenage girls. Do a google search, and you'll be stunned. Try this link for starters: <A Href="http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/ ... /a>Most of the girls do it for a combination of rush (remember, teen girls tend to be horribly insecure, and being told you're hot/sexy/beautiful is an easy [and addictive] way to overcome that) and profit (many maintain "wish lists" that fans can use to send gifts through online delivery services).