Comic Genesis Forums

by **Izanobu** on Sun Nov 04, 2001 2:52 am

huh? the changes haven't been that dramatic, nor is his nose that big at the moment... also, the way a character's features look depends on the angle of the face and what the character is experiencing at the time...also, one thing to keep in mind is that comics are one form of art that is constantly changing... if you look at any early work from any comic artist you see a difference in the way it is drawn... (look at early garfield or calvin and hobbes...they are actually rather awful art)
i have found that it takes a while for the characters and feel to get just the way you want them... hell, over at Past Dark, we are still messing around with the way people look a little, and it has been almost three months since we started... the comic is young... so you have to allow for some changes... that is how i see it anyway <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">------------------
Izanobu of <A HREF="http://www.pastdark.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.pastdark.com</A>

by **Zubkavich** on Sun Nov 04, 2001 3:01 am

Izanobu's basically correct on this one...Although I try, Colby's features have been "morphing" a bit as I draw. There are some days I feel I've drawn a more proper Colby and a few pages that are "off".I wish Makeshift Miracle was my full-time job so I could work on it until it's perfect, but unfortunately it's not.I create the pages in my evenings, usually in about 2 hours from concept to finished color and lettering. Considering how fast it is, there's bound to be some little errors.All in all, it's an evolution. The more I draw the characters, the better I'll get at it. You can see similar changes happening in Iris' features as well as I get a better handle on drawing her.
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Jim Zubkavich
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The Makeshift Miracle
http://www.makeshiftmiracle.com
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by **Kevin Wolf** on Sun Nov 04, 2001 4:05 am

Jim--I have to agree that the consistency of a character's nose is a crucial thing in comic art. How ever are we to recognize our boy Colby if his nose is constantly going through minor, mind-boggling changes?I think you should really consider sketching out say, nine, ten good quality poses of Colby in various moods, from various angles, and then simply cutting and pasting them into whatever scene requires them. This would allow you to maintain some consistency with Colby. This hand-drawing every panel from scratch thing really isn't cutting it.As for backgrounds, why not just hunt the web for some good quality photos of kitchens, bathrooms, asteroid craters...again, such a waste of time drawing this stuff over and over again, and how can you be certain that you'll, say, draw the refrigerator the same way every time?I certainly hope we can expect some level of consistency with Iris. She has a very pretty nose. I'd hate to see it slowly morph into some sort of hideous monstrosity.Kevin Wolf
Purveryor of fine noses since 2001. <A HREF="http://mythocorp.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>http://mythocorp.keenspace.com</A>

by **Pedro** on Sun Nov 04, 2001 4:06 am

What's up with colby's nose? It started of as a ski jump, then became flat after the asteroid, and is now a honker... to quote a certain australian politician "please explain"

by **Pedro** on Wed Nov 07, 2001 11:52 am

yikes, i didn't mean to cause offence and 20 line responses, sorry. I just noticed the difference between say Colby's nose on the banner at the top of the page (page 7) and his nose on page 11 and again on page 19 and 20. All are in profile, so it isn't about angle, but Jim it really depends on what works for you (maybe his nose got broken by the asteroid?)

by **Izanobu** on Thu Nov 08, 2001 3:18 am

if you go back and fix them now you won't be able to look back and see how your art has evolved from when you started. i vote not to do it. it is the nature of change... colby will eventually look as you wish him to... don't kill the process <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">------------------
Izanobu of <A HREF="http://www.pastdark.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.pastdark.com</A>

by **Chickstyle** on Thu Nov 08, 2001 4:23 am

I second Izanobu, leave em. You can't see the progression if you erase it. So he's had more plastic surgery than michael jackson and cher combined.

by **Kevin Wolf** on Thu Nov 08, 2001 5:34 am

As somebody who hasn't even noticed this allegedly morphing nose, I say, "Don't touch a thing."As somebody who is not an artist, I don't even feel comfortable criticizing the work of somebody who IS. However, I do know noses, and Colby's is fine.Only complaint I would have so far? I think the narration, frequently extraneous, has occasionally dulled the impact of the art. You want to go back and chop some of that out, pull a Ridley Scott instead of a George Lucas, go right ahead.Kevin Wolf
Mythocorp, International <A HREF="http://mythocorp.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>http://mythocorp.keenspace.com</A>

by **Cornflake** on Thu Nov 08, 2001 5:38 am

I understand where Jim is coming from on this one. When I used to animate in school, I'd design a character from all angles and just go to town on movin' him around for whatever assignment I had to do. Unfortunately, with my inexperience at the time with both character design and full character animation, you'd find problems with the character as it moved around and you'd fix them as you went. Just little things, mind but they add up over the course of a film. Consequently if you weren't careful you'd end up with a very different character appearing throughout your film.
Comics offer alot more freedom from installment to installment and a style can evolve as an artist gets a better handle on what's going on.
However, I happen to know that Jim's a lazy git who hates his own nose and that due to an alergy to anesthetics, can never have it changed. Consequently he lives out his 'fantasy noses' with Colby and inflicts his twisted desires on all his viewers. Shame, shame Zubkavich. Shame, shame.G.ps: Shame, shame.

by **Zubkavich** on Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:32 am

That's strange that you're finding the narration over done...I think I've been trying to put more text in sometimes because I worry that my viewers would be waiting two days for a new page only to have nothing at all to read!Strange...------------------
Jim Zubkavich
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The Makeshift Miracle
http://www.makeshiftmiracle.com
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by **Zubkavich** on Thu Nov 08, 2001 6:54 am

Yeah, Cornflake's totally right...I'll actually be selling fantasy noses in the makeshift Miracle store very soon

In all seriousness, I looked at some of those pages and must admit that Colby's nose does shift around quite a bit.The real question is should I go back and fix them?It would be easy for me to kick up the Photoshop files and edit our boy's nose on a few of those pages... would that help keep the unity intact or would it be too much "George Lucas Eat Your Heart Out" MM Special Edition?Let me know what you guys and gals think.------------------
Jim Zubkavich
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The Makeshift Miracle
http://www.makeshiftmiracle.com
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by **Cornflake** on Thu Nov 08, 2001 7:13 am

Leave the noses: Change Colby to a completely digital character to target the youth market; make Iris' breasts larger to attract the male readership yet not so large as to alienate the female readership; also Disney has proved that having a cast of cute sidekicks to draw on will increase marketing possibilities and are a hit with the family crowd. And hire a commitee. Big Hollywood productions always have a commitee to make their decisions for them. That's why their films are always so good and successful. Also Walmart has proven that underselling your product at a loss until you drive out any and all competition is good business. I suggest you make your comic even more free to pursue this course of action. Oh, and beanies. Make beanies of all (both) characters and possibly that phonebooth I mentioned earlier. Make them collectable. By only making four Colby dolls for every thousand Iris dolls you'll increase their value exponentially and make children cry and parents fight over the available product. That's all for now.(Keep it the way it is Jim. I'm real proud of the stuff you've been putting out and I think having the opportunity to look back on it in the upcoming weeks/months/years will always make you smile. Good job my friend.)G.

by **Pedro** on Thu Nov 08, 2001 11:45 am

wow, i actually incited a thread with more than 3 replies...
Frankly Jim, i don't give a damn...
you can send Colby to Tom's Rhinoplasty as often as you like just keeping pumping the stuff out
however what's his nose going to be? ski jump, straight or honker?[This message has been edited by Pedro (edited 11-09-2001).]

by **Zubkavich** on Fri Nov 09, 2001 8:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pedro:
[B]
however what's his nose going to be? ski jump, straight or honker?
B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The suspense... the suspense... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">Well, I'm about 10 pages ahead when I work on Makeshift Miracle, so there may be some more variations before it gets figured out. Now that I'm thinking more carefully about the nose, look for a Colby standard nose to be established some time around page 35-36...------------------
Jim Zubkavich
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The Makeshift Miracle
http://www.makeshiftmiracle.com
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by **Zubkavich** on Fri Nov 09, 2001 8:33 am

Cornflake's struck upon some brilliant ideas here... now that I've got MM merchandise, totally selling out can't be far away.We need a countdown clock or something <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">Here's how it'll evolve when the execs get a hold of it:- The comic will eventually be the called Makeshift Marbles actually (Miracle being too closely associated with religion, so the execs will ask me to change it).- Iris won't crash from the sky, as kids may try to emulate it in real life with gasoline and explosives. She'll just walk down the street and bump into Colby or something...- Colby's parents won't be on vacation, they'll be happy and blissfully unaware of everything happening around them.- A cute dog sidekick named Fuzzle will join the cast.- Every chapter will end with a bad joke or Fuzzle doing something cute and the entire cast laughing merrily at it.------------------
Jim Zubkavich
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The Makeshift Miracle
http://www.makeshiftmiracle.com
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by **Pskettios** on Sat Nov 10, 2001 4:37 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Zubkavich:
 The suspense... the suspense...

Well, I'm about 10 pages ahead when I work on Makeshift Miracle, so there may be some more variations before it gets figured out. Now that I'm thinking more carefully about the nose, look for a Colby standard nose to be established some time around page 35-36...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Colby's Nose - coming to a webcomic near you. OK, I don't know, I completely missed the nose changing around. Is that where the 'makeshift' part comes in? Sounds to me as if not many people mind this, just keep doing what you're doing. I only now stumbled on MM and so far, I'm intrigued!

by **Pedro** on Sat Nov 10, 2001 5:16 am

hey jim, really don't fret over the nose. look at it this way, i like your art so much that i notice the changes, really. keep at it man!

by **Apathetic jellyfish** on Mon Feb 18, 2002 10:05 am

The suspense... the suspense...

what if colby's nose is the miracle? that is, if it stays consistent...

truth be told, i couldn't care less, just as long as Zubkavich continues w/the comic and that's my $0.02.

by **Templar** on Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:48 pm

I noticed the nose thing myself, but I attributed Colby's sudden Karl Malden-like honker to the perspective it was drawn in. :smile:

by **Piano Guy** on Mon Feb 18, 2002 6:33 pm

Back in the old days of animations, especially in things like silly symphonies, a lot of clips would just repeat themselves over and over - for example, there might be an assembly line of squirrels passing down nuts, but in reality, it was just one pass being repeated over and over.

Disney stood out from other animators of the time because he ordered his animators not to ever do that - every slide had to be done by hand.

I don't think you should just make several poses and then copy and paste, because it takes a certain life out of your pictures. Doing them by hand makes them each unique in there own way, and (as with the nose) is sometimes gives a subtle sense of change.

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