Aha! Huh?

Aha! Huh?

Postby Acolyte on Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:22 pm

So there were 5 Children altogether. One other has been compelled to do what Jack has done, or has dissociated his name from himself in some other way, and apparently the True Name is the only method by which they can be controlled. But why is Nyarlathotep so interested in them and what did he have to do with their creation in the first place? And what does he want with them?

Incidentally, "Nyarlathotep" means "Nyarlat is at peace", or "Nyarlat is content". Perhaps this is an unlikely state of affairs, but I suspect Lovecraft didn't bother finding out what that particular word-element meant before he came up with what he hoped was an Egyptian-sounding name.
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Postby Guildenstern on Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:14 pm

Well, chaos and madness are easier to spread when one has power... and imagine the power of five beings that are immune to magic, and devour it like woglies eat integrity. The fear and panic of creatures that have been in command since their beginning would probably be like a sweet slice of apple pie to Nyarlathotep. And who's to say he's not looking out for himself as well? A Kataract Sune might be able to take him out just as easily as they could Thera.

And you know, Nyarlt always struck me as a content, smug bastard.
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Postby Seafog the 3rd on Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:20 am

So, is Loki Nylarthotep or is Nylarthotep Loki? I'm gonna guess the former. Way to put those servants of Chaos to work FOR YOU! Loki's da man. It's too bad he's classically known for... overestimating his limits (at least I think he is, my mythology is pretty rusty).
On a completely unrelated note I got a coworker to try the comic after we started discussing Lovecraft. I'll see if he liked it in a few days.
'Never appeal to a man's 'better nature'. He may not have one. Invoking his self-intrest gives you more leverage.' -Lazarus Long
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-hoteps, Nyarlats, etc...

Postby Bushipunk on Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:17 am

Seafog the 3rd wrote:So, is Loki Nylarthotep or is Nylarthotep Loki? I'm gonna guess the former. Way to put those servants of Chaos to work FOR YOU! Loki's da man. It's too bad he's classically known for... overestimating his limits (at least I think he is, my mythology is pretty rusty).
On a completely unrelated note I got a coworker to try the comic after we started discussing Lovecraft. I'll see if he liked it in a few days.


It seems pretty clear that it's the former; although either could undoubtedly imitate the other, what would Nyarlathotep's motive be for imitating Loki can calling (we presume) the good Doctor to tell her about the Children?

Hm. Actually, that's an interesting enough question that even though I don't think it's true, I'm going to entertain the possibility that it was the latter until it's proven otherwise.

Regarding the meaning of -hotep (from an earlier post)... I can't speak to what it literally means, but I know I've seen it translated as at least contextually equivalent to "prince" or "lord" more than once before. Once in a specific discussion of Nyarlathotep's moniker if I recall... If all my books weren't in storage, I'd look that up.

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Re: -hoteps, Nyarlats, etc...

Postby Acolyte on Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:34 pm

Seafog the 3rd wrote:It's too bad he's classically known for... overestimating his limits (at least I think he is, my mythology is pretty rusty).

He occasionally failed to think things through, as in the episode where he cut Sif's hair off. He schemed furiously to avoid the consequences for it, but ended up with his lips sewn together anyhow.

I have no opinion on this subject, except to say I think it'd be much easier for Nyarlathotep to impersonate Loki than the other way around, given that Loki is essentially of the same nature as Hel and the other Incarnates. Which is to say he's human at his base. But if L is impersonating N it might only be temporary. I can think of good arguments either way, so I'm going to avoid speculating.

Bushipunk wrote:Regarding the meaning of -hotep (from an earlier post)... I can't speak to what it literally means, but I know I've seen it translated as at least contextually equivalent to "prince" or "lord" more than once before.


Not that I ever heard of. You often find it as an element in theophoric Egyptian names, such as Amenhotep which you'll always find translated as "Amon is pleased" or "Amon is content" or some equivalent. Lord is "neb", as in Tutankhamun's throne name Nebkheperure, "Re is the Lord of Manifestations". I don't know the word for "prince".

Once in a specific discussion of Nyarlathotep's moniker if I recall... If all my books weren't in storage, I'd look that up.

In that case it might only sound Egyptian and not be intended to represent an actual Egyptian word-element.
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Postby Mirober on Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:29 pm

A little extra for the forum readers:

Not every Incarnate was killed during Kali's Jihad. In Loki's case, he sought shelter outside reality, within the Court of Azathoth. There, his mind was shattered, his will subsumed, and he was remade. Enter Loki, exit Nyarlat.
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Postby Seafog the 3rd on Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:59 pm

Like I said, he overestimates his abilities. :D
OooKay, that changes things significantly. Does that mean there was no Nyarlat until Loki, or is he just using the form/reputation/minions of Nyarlat?
Anyway, did I say significant? I meant it royally fucks up everything. NWO manipulated by Chaos at a much higher level then previously thought probable. Mythos and NWO 'cooperating' against our Scoobies, which is of course much more dangerous. Stronger Chaos presence in reality then originally suspected. And most important of all, the 5 Children were created at the behest of a Chaos influenced Incarnate of Mischief.
Fun, fun, fun.
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Postby Perfervid on Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:56 am

Hello, new to the forums, been reading the comic for a couple of months. Love it, especially the mythos influence.

Was actually uncertain of Loki being an incarnate, as he in myth actually was only adopted into the aesir (norse gods), but actually was one of the giants, (the jotuns). I suppose in strange daze that would mean the titans.
Wich would have explained the shapeshifting abillity, if im not mistaken.
Thats what I tought he would be, a "renegade" titan.
Oh well, this isjust as interesting. :D

As for Loki, yes, he overestimates his abilities constantly, but, most of the time his schemes get him into serious trouble, but most of the time he manages to get them good again.

And the incident with Sif's hair its basically the fact that the other gods dont support him... in that story, he tricks dwarves into making gifts to the other gods, in a competition, wich includes Thor's hammer mjolnir, the never missing spear gungnir, the ring draupne, a flying golden pig, skibladner the longhsip that can be folded till it fits in a pocket, yet can sail on both air and water, and sif gets hair of gold.

The aesir knows that Loki gambled is head, still they decree the dwarves that wanted his head the winners. Loki only escapes decapitation by demanding that the dvarves not harm his neck, since it only was the head they could do with as they pleased.

He was also responsible for the wall around asgard being buildt, and Odin getting his eight-legged horse, Sleipner...

Of course his offspring is a kinda interesting subject... Loki being Sleipners mother... yeah, shapeshifting abilities can confuse things :), and with the jutuness/giantess Angboda, he fathered some of the biggest monsters in norse myth, Jormundgand the midgard serpent, and the wolf Fenris.
And Hel also, tough that last part , obviously isnt true here.

Stupid historians getting everything wrong :)

Ooops long post.
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Postby Guildenstern on Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:55 am

You know... being the shape shifting, thousand faced trickster and soul of the outer gods... finding comfy furniture must be quite a challenge.
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Postby Orion on Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:36 am

*reads todays comic*

*plot twists*

*is smashed headfirst into a wall*
NJ is also Orion's fiance of sexy passion with the love of a thousand sea monkeys


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Postby Perfervid on Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:38 am

Actually, I think finding comfortable furniture would be quite easy... He'd just shapeshift into something that would find it comfy :)
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ID?

Postby Acolyte on Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:49 am

And just for clarity, I take it the guy in today's strip is the Archangel Doug? (Or whatever his angelic rank was.) It's been a very long time since we last saw him back when Thera was introduced in the strip IIRC, so I just wanted to make sure.

Here he is.
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Re: ID?

Postby Mirober on Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:10 pm

Acolyte wrote:And just for clarity, I take it the guy in today's strip is the Archangel Doug? (Or whatever his angelic rank was.) It's been a very long time since we last saw him back when Thera was introduced in the strip IIRC, so I just wanted to make sure.

Here he is.


Yes, that's Doug. More revelations next week ...
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Re: ID?

Postby Bushipunk on Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:10 am

Mirober wrote:
Acolyte wrote:And just for clarity, I take it the guy in today's strip is the Archangel Doug? (Or whatever his angelic rank was.) It's been a very long time since we last saw him back when Thera was introduced in the strip IIRC, so I just wanted to make sure.

Here he is.


Yes, that's Doug. More revelations next week ...


You weren't kidding. "Masters?" Who's spoken with Jack lately? He has of course communicated with the ghouls, but their masters seemed to have chosen him already. The image of his Chained self while he was unconscious, then? Many speculated it wasn't actually any aspect of himself, but none of us could come up with a real motive for his enemies to do it. The other question besides who his masters are, of course, is whether Draniel and Doug's other co-workers are aware of them.

Which reminds me, regarding speculation as to whether Loki is imitating Nyarlathotep or the other way around, I have a new theory: Loki has been one of Nyarlathotep's guises all along, and they have in fact always been the same person. They have a lot in common and, like Batman and Bruce Wayne, are never photographed together.

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Postby Guildenstern on Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:07 am

We couldn't think of a reason for Jack's enemies to tell him to go all no-soul, all the time? We don't even know who his enemies are most of the time! Hell, we don't even know who all is playing, let alone who knows about Jack!

I mean, there's...
The Illuminati
The Host
The Greys
The Army of Man
That One Government Agency Thing, You Know, The One With Liza?
The Forces of Chaos
... and these are just the big, BIG organizations that we've seen. Who knows what they're actually planning.

And then there's all the people with personal agendas, making their own bids for power! The fact that we think anyone simply wants to help Jack or Thera out is probably madness!
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Re: ID?

Postby Acolyte on Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:18 pm

Bushipunk wrote:The image of his Chained self while he was unconscious, then? Many speculated it wasn't actually any aspect of himself, but none of us could come up with a real motive for his enemies to do it.


Perhaps Doug and his masters actually have everyone's best interests in mind. That would be weird, but it happens sometimes. It was Doug who got Jack and Thera together in the first place, and his stated motive at the time probably wasn't the true one.

"Principle" Douglas? What's that about?

The other question besides who his masters are, of course, is whether Draniel and Doug's other co-workers are aware of them.


I'm guessing not. That would mean The Host has full knowledge of whatever it is that Doug's up to, and I don't think they do. Besides, the voice waited until Draniel left before talking to Doug.
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Postby Guildenstern on Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:30 pm

Principle is just his title/rank, I believe. Which probably means he's a principality, which means he looks out for city-nations... Hm. He could simply be looking out for his ward, which could be anything from the city to the entire USA.

Hm.

Doug might be a wee bit more powerful than one would first suspect...
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Re: ID?

Postby Acolyte on Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:00 am

Acolyte wrote:Perhaps Doug and his masters actually have everyone's best interests in mind.


OK. Doug may have Thera's best interest in mind, but his masters are bastards just like everyone else is. I wonder in what sense she's his daughter. Probably just the father of her current half-Nephilim incarnation. Her mother must have been -- impressive.

I also wonder who the masters are that they feel they can do Thera in so casually.

Guildenstern wrote:Principle is just his title/rank, I believe. Which probably means he's a principality, which means he looks out for city-nations...


We actually get no such thing from the Areopagite, but that might not apply here. If it did and we should read "Principality" for "Principle", we'd hardly expect to find one of the Cherubim reporting to him.

Bushipunk was evidently correct about when the masters spoke with Jack, but their ultimate motives are still unclear to me.
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Postby Guildenstern on Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:33 pm

Well, the extent of my angel mythology knowledge is a couple of entries from the Book of Ratings, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.
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Postby Mirober on Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:46 pm

Strange Daze universe:

The Third Choir - Administrates/Guards the Material
The Second Choir - Administrates/Guards the Immaterial
The First Choir - Adminstrates/Guards the Heavenly

Third Choir
Angels - rank and file
Archangels - special ops
Principalities - regional coordinators

First Choir
Domitors - internal affairs
Ofanim - most visible level of leadership
Sephiroth - the original beings summoned by Mara, along with their opposite number, the Qlippoth. The progenitors of all angels. Could also be interpreted as the Archons of the Demi-Urge (Mara/Kali).

Then of course you get specific types of angels: Cherubim, Houri, Grigori, etc. Their Breed, as opposed to their Choir and Voice.

Incidentally, Douglas is Grigori.
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