OK Guys - I need your help on something big...seriously....

Postby WB on Mon Jan 21, 2002 4:32 am

As most of you know - Keenspace was down pretty much ALL WEEKEND LONG. The deal was that it was supposed to be a simple server upgrade and that was it - unfortunately it elongeted all the way into sometime today at 12:00 :P<P>In fact I'm STILL hearing that people are having a horrible time trying to load the front page alone...<P>I've been thinking, and gotten offers and I may move.<P>Keen has been good, but I'd rather be somewhere where the server isnt always slow and hard to update and stuff. For example - I dont update Keen myself. Its all done via CGI. I upload the comics and thats it. The problem is - when it gets backlogged, I can set a comic in to update the next day and the thing will roll over to near about 11 the next day if its clogged IF it updates at all. Thats happened to me more than once which explains why sometimes you wont see a new comic till the middle of the day, cause I dont have time to do it manually.<P>Here's the deal.<P>I'm certain you all are familiar with a site called Toonzone. It is located here: <A HREF="http://www.toonzone.net/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.toonzone.net/</A> <P>A person there by the name of Vince Benenati has asked me quite a few times if I'd like to move there and be a "centerpiece" of something that they are trying out called the "WBC" - or Warner Bros. Club. I almost said yes once (as for some reason, at that time, Keenspace had annoyed the life out of me), but I renigged at the last minute to stay at Keen and most of the time I've fiddled about unable to make a final decision on just where I want to go and what i want to do. Do I stay at Keen or go to Toonzone.<P>I've sat weighing the benefits and cons of both Keen and Toonzone.<P>The problem with Keenspace is that the server is slow. Slower than normal for that matter. I blame that mostly on the servers. It also tends to get bogged down at certain times of the day.<P>Another double edged sword about Keen is that its known primarily for webcomics. Thats why I chose to go here, because theres no where else like it on the web where I can host my strips. And if youre good enough, you get into Keenspot where the "big names" go.<P>The problem with this is that there are litterally TONS of comics on Keenspace. Some of them crappy, some of them really good. But a lot of times, I often wonder if CNW and TT are lost in the shuffle so to speak. There are SO MANY of them out there, that I feel its kinda hard sometimes to get CNW to stand out and get noticed, y'know? Considering that i havent even gotten over 100 yet in my comic strips - I've developed a prety decent following. I got an email about the strip at least once every other day before I got delayed. But I often wonder how much more of an impact I'd make if I had more exposure.<P>A pro about Keen is that I literally have to do nothing when I update. Like I said, I just lop it in there and wait. Its the waiting thats the con.<P>The last con is message board. I have my own of course, but I cant do anything with it. All I am is a Moderator and thats it. I cant even control the picture you see at the top left unless I put an order in to Keen that I want it changed (which would proabably take a few weeks :P) or just delete the picture altogether and just rename it a different file :P I cant change colors or anything. If we were to get a spammer we'd be screwed in a sense. But I'm not really worried about that since this a kind of small close knit friend board and I kinda like it like that. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> I'm not really woried about it anyway - this isnt The Mofo or tSf in size and right now I prefer it like that. <P>
Then theres Toonzone. At Toonzone I'd be there by myself (really an odd man out so to speak as I'd be the only one there with a comic strip) I'm a mod there but dont do my duty as well as I do say, currently tsF, or in the past, The MoFo.<P>The good bit about this is Toonzone is VERY WELL known in animation circles. If I do really good there with CNW and TT that could be a chance for a lot of exposure. And I mean a LOT if it works well. Moreso than Keen really if I'm lucky...<P>I wouldnt really have much competition and I'd be free to, y'know, feel unpressured. Not feel pressured and stuff. Sometimes, browsing other places, I feel like Keen can be more of a popularity contest with so many people here and there concerned with how many pageviews they get moreso than the quality of thier comics, but i get off topic and I'm on a soapbox...<P>Anyways - thats the other drawback. If I do go to Toonzone I'd be alone, but theres a chance I'd get a HELL of a lot more exposure by being one comic rather than one comic in the middle of almost a hundred. :P<P>The second thing is the server.<P>Toonzone and Keenspace both went down at the same time on Friday Night. Toonzone said it would be up again the next day. Same with Keenspace. <P>You know pretty much how that went :P <P>When Toonzone goes down - it pretty much goes down and comes back up when it says. When Keen goes down - it MAY get back up in time or it may be delayed 2 days as per last time. I dont know what the problem was that caused Keens server to be out, but this has sort of happened more than once and after a while it gets annoying y know?<P>The next pro and con about Toonzone is the messageboard. And this is moreso a con...<P>If I go to Toonzone I have two options, get a board of my own (i.e. invest in a low frill UBB) or an Ikonboard - which I would probably have to do if I moved) or save money to get it, OR share a board at Toonzone with the WB Club. The problem is that if I do this, I'd have to adhere by the Toonzone rules of the boards, and I sorta like my own freer environment - hence me pprobably getting an Ikonboard unless it became popular enough that I could get my own space on thier own boards. You know how that works.<P>Either way - I could customize my own board. I could have control over it. But i would have to shell out money maybe once or twice until the board became more popular to do so. I've never bought a board before and I'd have to ask my mom about a loan to get out some money - she'd support me for it if its my comic, but I dont like asking my mom for extra money for a board and stuff when things are tight as is with me in school and the car accident and...those of you my age should know what I'm talking about or maybe relate (Sam? Kat? Slane? Kedzie? Greliz? Vince?). I think she'd let me do it, but its just the fact that i dont really wanna ask y'know? **shrugs**<P>The second thing is that I may have to find a new place to host my weekly trivia mp3's. I dont THINK it would be a big deal as I only use 3 or 4 and every week I replace each one (theme songs and VG music ARENT that big), but Toonzone doesnt allow MP3 hosting. I may be able to get around that if I talk to the site owner Harley (Vince said he would ask). I may not. I dont know yet. If NOT I'd have to find somewhere I can place my mp3's for the weekly contests and I have NO idea how or where to do that and I certainly dont wanna let it go since its become kinda popular as of late.<P>I would NOT have to change site design - just take down all the Keen space stuff and put up Toonzone stuff in its place and I'd probably have to have a benner ad aon the front page. Nothing big, same as usual and banner ads are NEVER a big deal with me as long as they dont get annoying and flashy (which sometimes Keens have) and add a "Hosted by WBC" logo somewhere or something. Thats no big deal at all.<P>The good thing about Toonzone is that if I move, I have the Autokeen Lite CGI script that I could have to pretty much replicate the setup I have now. Problem is (and Kedzie KNOWS I'm a screwup at this stuff) is that i'd have to set this thing up :P And I have NO IDEA how to work CGI though I suppose I could learn.<P>So - in both cases its a bit of a double edged sword. I'd have to let go some stuff and they'd be big stuff in a sense. If I stay at Keen I'll have a SOMEWHAT stable spot depending on eths erver, but no exposure and if it goes down I'm screwed till they get it back up. If I go to Toonzone I have to set up CGI from scratch and shell out for my own MB - BUT I'd get WAAAY more exposure and a more stable setup.<P>I've been wracking my brain on this for a LONG TIME NOW and I literally cant make this decision. I've seesawed so much on it that my brain hurts and I've probably annoyed Vince to know end with my constant "I ODNT KNOW" bit. But it really is a HARD decision.<P>To be honest - after that Keen server stunt this weekend, I'm REALLY tempted to just say f*ck it and go with Toonzone and stay there cause while the immediate benefits may not be the best right now, the LONG TERM benefits more than outweigh it and Keenspace. And like I said - i'd like to be there. I'd just have to put up a little money for a board and do some minor changes here and there, the most being the auto CGI. But i wanted to maybe discuss it with you guys and Vince and get your opinions and help on making it. Its a really hard decision to make in a sense. My mind is pretty much ***almost*** made up at this point, but I just need some opinions is all. if I make my decision - its gonna be my final one. No buts. So I have to do what to me is the right thing.<P>Any help or opinions at all?<P>------------------<P><B>Dub's Sig - Version 4.2: The Signature Of The Idiot Savant!</B><P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> <A HREF="http://chipandwalter.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>CNW & Time Trouble: My Daily Comic Strips</A>
<LI> <A HREF="http://www.deadjournal.com/users/wb" TARGET=_blank>WB's Dead Journal</A> </UL><P><B>Jonathan "WB!" Gray</B> - Nacking Your Weasel For Fun And Profit Since 1997, Guaranteed or your money back!<p>[This message has been edited by WB (edited 01-21-2002).]
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Postby Crazy Pocky on Mon Jan 21, 2002 4:48 am

Ahhnn... I've had similar probs with hosting pockyland. Hosts like Angelfire and Geocities had horrible downtime and mess up my HTML, but my new host fateback had no ads, free, but excessive downtime. Not to mention they recently put up a firewall. What to do? I moved to the place that was more comfortable, easier to use, and had the better benefits. Fateback has a 1337 user interface, no ads, and easy uploads, although there are drawbacks. But in the end the move did me a lot of good. ^_^ I think it will do you good too =)
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Postby Tails-sama the GG on Mon Jan 21, 2002 4:53 am

Okay...well, here's my two cents <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>I think that moving to Toonzone will be a good idea. Your biggest two problems are monetary and the CGI, both of which have solutions that are within your grasp.<P>First of all: you have an MB, of sorts, in TSF, and for the time being you could use the General, Comics, and Fanart forums until you found a more permanent place to stay. If you're desperate enough--and this is a big IF--you could get an EZBoard, or even an MSN board. You have full control at both places, and they're inexpensive (the MSN board comes free if you've got an MSN site, and it's also a handifferous place to post art <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">)<P>As for CGI--well, I know piss about it myself, but I'm sure SOMEONE does, right? There's gotta be someone who can help you out with it. Maybe Big K himself, he -is- a web page designer, after all =P<P>By contrast, you've got Keenspace--rediculous and spontaneous downtime and little exposure...it's less expensive, but the old clich
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Postby Samanfur the Fox on Mon Jan 21, 2002 5:42 am

So you didn`t get my e-mail yet?<P>I`ll reply to this privately. <P>*hug*
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Postby WB on Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:12 am

Nope. I never got one Sam. I checked earlier today and just now. Just send one when you egt the chance <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> <P>If it doesnt work you could just take your message and PM me over at tSf <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>------------------

<B>Dub's Sig - Version 4.2: The Signature Of The Idiot Savant!</B><P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> <A HREF="http://chipandwalter.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>CNW & Time Trouble: My Daily Comic Strips</A>
<LI> <A HREF="http://www.deadjournal.com/users/wb" TARGET=_blank>WB's Dead Journal</A> </UL><P><B>Jonathan "WB!" Gray</B> - Nacking Your Weasel For Fun And Profit Since 1997, Guaranteed or your money back!
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Postby SSDogbert22 on Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:41 am

I know enough about CGI that I could, with a LITTLE difficulty, get it working for you Dub.<P>In way fo Boards, I would personally suggest, Boards-wise, jsut setting up an EZBoard, or getting someone else to put your forums in their EZboard. (Which I would GLADLY do. Heck, I'd even give ya Admin access.) EZBoard's a VERY powerful system, and the popup ads aren't THAT annoying.<P>As for hosting, I would suggest going to Toonzone and finding a site that offers Hotlink-compatible, MP3-allowed Webhosting.<P>I'm trying to remember where Megatokyo is Hosted. they would probably host you (You've definately got the comic skill), and, while you'd have to bring yur own CGI (Autokeen) it is a KICKASS server.
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Postby SDF Jerry P on Tue Jan 22, 2002 5:20 am

Well, if you think that Toonzone'll get you more exposure, then I think you should go for it.<P>As for the Board, why not just use your EZboard account? That's where I've got the Off-Campus board.
<P>------------------
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Postby Charles RB on Tue Jan 22, 2002 10:07 am

I say got to Toonzone. The only con is the MB, but you get a better server and you'll get a LOT more attention; nearly 100 strips will suddenly appear there, and that will amaze a LOT of people, and bring in new readers. And if it really IS a famous site in animation circles, you could get some really useful professional exposure.
I say move.
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Postby Chazz Adams on Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:58 am

Wow Dubs, this certainly is a toughie. While I unfortunately can't decide what you should do, I do agree that if you go to TOONZONE you'll get a hell of a lot more exposure. Although there IS the matter of money which you don't have to deal with for KeenSpace. But, TOONZONE is VERY POPULAR and one of the best at what they do. I think CnW and TT would be a fabulous edition to their site. But I can't decide one way or another.<P>Good Luck.
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Postby Haipaa-san on Wed Jan 23, 2002 6:50 am

*in a Scooby-Doo-type voice*<P>Reah!! Rou should roo it, Rubbayu-Ree!!<P>*normal voice* <P>Aaaaand, if it's money yer worried about, do what a lot of folks do here in Chicago;tap dance in the street for cash, or sell socks, cigarette lighters, electric shavers, and candy bars in the subway! If that don't work, then yas can sell old bags of peanuts and stale M & M's "In the name of da Lawd" . . . people ALWAYS fall for that scam! > <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif"> <P>The richest people in the world are Chicago's hustlers! *in a cheesy salesman voice* Make a mint without gettin' off yer lazy @$$!! Be a hustler! Sell anything from candy to car stereos!Call 1-800-555-SUCKER today! Operators are standng by . . . Call NOW!! ^___^ <P>*sucks on her super-sized tube of Barbecue Chocky-Mayo*<P>------------------

I have rabies an' a one-celled monkey in my brain!! Care for some gopher?
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Postby UR on Fri Jan 25, 2002 2:08 am

Hmmm, thats a toughie, i say,well, i am getting used to keen, but the loading time sare sometimes horrible (and i have cable), hmm, thats really a tough choice!
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Postby Slane on Fri Jan 25, 2002 6:56 am

[Slane walks in, wearing a business suit and carrying a briefcase. He opens it up and takes out another briefcase, which he opens, to reveal a third briefcase, and continues as such until he pulls out briefcase the size of a cassette, from which he takes out a bottle of water, a copy of Dave Thomas' autobiography, and a bag of Jelly Bellies. Don't ask how it all fits.]<P>Good day, all. I am Mr. Slane, entrepreneur extrodinaire, here to help our good friend, WB. I will use the skills I have learned from the business academy at my school to suggest a solution for the artist's plight.<P>[A random student from Slane's school enters...]<P>Student: Hey, Derek, what the hell are you talking about? We haven't learned crap in those classes! All we did was play Bejeweled on MSN, goof off, cuss out each other, and walk around a park all Saturday morning! Where do you get off with these lies and-<P>[Slane punches out the student.]<P>NEVER USE MY NAME AROUND HERE, INTERLOPER!<P>Hehe...sorry about that. Now to be serious.<P>
To use my business expertice, here is my opinion...<P>Go to Toonzone.<P>It is a nice and popular site and, as you said, you would be the only comic there and would stand out. If it is as popular with cartoon inner circles as you say, then this could be your big break in getting CnW/TT discovered and maybe make it profitable. I would not worry about your CGI troubles (heck, I don't know crap about that stuff), and, like others have said, you have friends like Kedzie that can assist you with that.<P>As for money, I understand why you concerned about asking your mother for money, especially considering all of your other expenses at the moment. If this is a problem, perhaps you should look for outside sources for money. You could get a job, but school is a hassle enough for you. You could get a loan from a bank, but I don't know if you have had the time to get the credit necessary. You could get people to loan you money and be a part of this business endeavor, but then that involves contracts and lawyers to make sure that you don't get ripped off or lose your work. Perhaps one of these suggestions can help you, or maybe someone else could offer a better idea based one mine.<P>Then again, you could ask for contributions from your fans. Unfortunately, I'm really cheap. <P>[Light-blub appears over Slane's head.] Hey! You could sell artwork! I don't know if you would be willing to separate with it, seeing as you put a lot into it, but maybe you could charge people to do graphic design work or logos or stuff! You could start saving up money and use it towards getting the things you need! Unless, you are already doing this, in which case you should ignore my comments.<P>You could try a free MB or free website, but, like just about everything on the Internet that is free, there could be problems involving advertisements and banners (Lord knows that GeoCities has gotten annoying with its ads, as well as linking stuff).<P>In other words, ask Kedzie about the Internet stuff. I'm only an entrepreneur.<P>[Hears MB members giggling at his name.]<P>GO TO HELL, CRETINS!!!
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Postby WB on Sun Jan 27, 2002 9:50 am

Well..."Derek"<P>**giggles** Thank you for your input - in fact, thank ALL OF YOU for your input. I appreciate it. heavily.<P>I talked with Harley (the head of Toonzone) and Vince (my liason) and accepted the offer. I should probably be there by I'M HOPING mid february. I wanna be there really ASAP. I'd like to start #100 on my new site <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> That'd draw in some readers <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>The bad news - there is none. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>Harleys gonna set up the CGI bin for me and all i have to do is put it in there. I can messa round with it myself, fiddle with stuff and see how it works. Hopefully I can hook it all up.<P>And after talking with Harley - I WILL have my own messageboard. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> No money for meeee ^__^ **dances**<P>The only problem I see may be the trivia - something I had not expected before because of the mp3's. She's gonna talk it over with some other guys there and see what they think (since I explained the concept behind the Toon themes and trivia). Here's the deal though - if it doesnt fly, I'd have to give up the trivia cause I'd have nowhere to host my weekly files. Would anyone here be willing to loan me some of thier space if push comes to shove?<P>I'll announce it on the main page and go into more detail next week, but for now - thanks guys <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><P>------------------

<B>Dub's Sig - Version 4.2: The Signature Of The Idiot Savant!</B><P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> <A HREF="http://chipandwalter.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>CNW & Time Trouble: My Daily Comic Strips</A>
<LI> <A HREF="http://www.deadjournal.com/users/wb" TARGET=_blank>WB's Dead Journal</A> </UL><P><B>Jonathan "WB!" Gray</B> - Nacking Your Weasel For Fun And Profit Since 1997, Guaranteed or your money back!
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Postby True Red on Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:30 am

<B>If</B> you need it, I can host about 5MB of stuff for you on my university account. You'd have to email the stuff to my college account though.
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Postby Slane on Sat Feb 02, 2002 11:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WB:
<B>Well..."Derek"
**giggles** Thank you for your input...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>[Blinks.]<P>Well, at least you SPELLED my name right!<P>[Slams a briefcase over Dub's head and boots him over a cliff.]<P>Man, that "boot someone over a cliff" stuff has a whole new meaning after the most recent CnW! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif"><P>Oh, and you're welcomed. Can't wait to see the site at its new location.
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Postby Maverick MMI on Sun Feb 10, 2002 4:08 am

Ditch Keen. It's just too slow and the list of comics is so long CnW & TT is getting lost in the crowd.
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