Human instincts

Genecatlow · Post by **Genecatlow** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 4:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sunblaze Wildfire:
 Sure, ItaX. Watch out, Gene and CW. We're coming. *evil grin*
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
By all means, Sunblaze. You'll be visiting
an office whose repositors have handled every
case in the book (and more than a few that
aren't). You think you can faze them, you're
welcome to try. ^_~

Genecatlow · Post by **Genecatlow** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 5:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by LouisTh:
I disagree. If you've ever been to a bar, a church, or a sporting event, certainly you've seen humans who are embracing something besides raw intellect. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> I am not condemning those things, it's just that intellectual response is not all it's hopped up to be. We humans react with our hearts, our gut feelings, and more, most of the time. I mean, have you ever said to yourself, "Although my coworker just made me look foolish in front of our boss to increase his social standing, I will not get mad and fight back because that is an instinct reserved for the lower primates." Of course not. I bet chimps would be the furthest thing from your mind. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
When I read the comic where Ms. Gables says, "I myself have had plenty of instinctive feelings over the years," I asked myself, "What instinctive reactions have I had recently?" and my immediate answer was "None that I can think of." But then I began to wonder, what is an instinctive reaction? The definition I based my first answer would be a reaction that seemed to be due to some part of me other than "me", some really strong feeling that I couldn't explain and didn't seem reasonable for me. And truly, I can say that has very rarely happened. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The furries of this (Furriston's) world have
a range of instinctive reactions, some that
are directly related to the individual and
some that are related to past species (some
of which far removed from the species they
might belong to!) They cannot always explain
the reaction itself, but they understand that
such things are present within both the psyche
of the individual and the collective life-
energy of their society. So, whether good or
not-so-good, they enbrace the ability to feel
their instincts. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
The problem is more that we humans don't have any clear indication or feeling that a reaction is instinctive, at least to the level of quantification that Gene and CW imply is possible for the furries. I mean, who can tell whether urge to cuddle a baby is a recent or ancient instict? (Compared to what? Well, how about the urge to run from an unidentified noise?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A recent instinct (in their world) is one that
would be stimulated more by modern-day input.
(Or, more precisely, the elements unique to
recorded history. Being uneasy about traveling
by car would be a recent instinct.) An ancient
instinct would be a reaction hearkening from
farther back, from an era before civilization.
The vision that Cotton experienced when he bit
into the leaf that Tavatiana gave him would
qualify at a point just at the threshold of
modern times, at the very birth of civilized
society. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Some humans have spent a lot of time trying to determine why we have the reactions we have, but in general humans don't analyze their reactions that way. If someone cuts me off in traffic, I'm mad because they cut me off. I very rarely ask why that should make me mad. If I see a baby, I want to cuddle it because I think it is cute. I very rarely ask what makes it cute.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Generally, furries don't either. But their
parental instincts run even deeper. An avian
couple would respond to any infant of any
species in their own way - their minds would
lead them to preen the infant's feathers and
look forward to teaching it to fly even though
such things might be totally impossible for
that particular infant! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Only if one could somehow quantify the differences could one make a personal objective report to a repositor. We humans have to depend on insightful studies to learn that a creature having a large head relative to its body size triggers the urge to cuddle and mother, or that 45 degree angles in a face makes it the scariest.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Quantification of instinct is one of the
things that the furries of their world have
fully developed, just as the humans of their
world have (apparently) abandoned. They
could return to such a process, it isn't
beyond them...

Genecatlow · Post by **Genecatlow** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 5:22 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by JimRob:
Is there any clear divide between instinct and conditioning, I wonder? Until recently I'd have denied that there was any such thing as instinct, just learnt responses; say, an automatic positive response to a certain stimulus is 'learnt' by a positive experience related to it in the past. I also thought that this was a Bad Thing, and (rather madly) that all stimuli should be interpreted consciously (or at least that we should be reprogramming ourselves in a 'rational' way). Since then I've backed off slightly; I'll concede that there are some hard-wired instincts (just because there's so much evidence for it), but I still reckon that they're much too mutable and fuzzy to be quantified exactly. Take phobias - 'instinctive' reactions often to things so irrational (like rhubarb) you couldn't possibly be born with them...There was a point somewhere in that, but I think it drowned.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It wouldn't have drowned in the mind of a
furry citizen of Furriston. They can have
reactions that (with study) they can trace
back to prehistoric times. Full-blown phobias
they may not always be born with, but an odd
scent or a strange sound can conjure up in
their minds impulses born in species that may
have become extinct aeons ago.

ItaX · Post by **ItaX** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 5:35 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sunblaze Wildfire:

Sure, ItaX. Watch out, Gene and CW. We're coming. *evil grin*
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmm!?...You said "yes!"!?...Odd!! This is the first time on my whole life that a lady accepts an invitation from ME <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!!!
*blushes*------------------
Light and darkness are as one in my soul!

Sunblaze Wildfire · Post by **Sunblaze Wildfire** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by genecatlow:
By all means, Sunblaze. You'll be visiting an office whose repositors have handled every case in the book (and more than a few that aren't). You think you can faze them, you're welcome to try. ^_~<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Are you sure, Gene? I think there would be a high level of diffcuitly trying to figure me out. *laughs* I have a feeling they can't handle my type.Oh, Gene. ItaX would add to it. ={;8}------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)

Sunblaze Wildfire · Post by **Sunblaze Wildfire** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ItaX:
 Hmm!?...You said "yes!"!?...Odd!! This is the first time on my whole life that a lady accepts an invitation from ME <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!!!
*blushes*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, I said yes. ={:8}------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)

Genecatlow · Post by **Genecatlow** » Thu Oct 04, 2001 2:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sunblaze Wildfire:
 Are you sure, Gene? I think there would be a high level of diffcuitly trying to figure me out. *laughs* I have a feeling they can't handle my type.Oh, Gene. ItaX would add to it. ={;8}
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sunblaze, the BII offices in Furriston don't
simply have access to the records of those
who live in Furriston alone (extensive as
those records alone may be). The quantifying
and recording of instinctive behavior among
the furries of their world takes place all
over their world. (Canovia, for example, has
its own equivalent of the BII in its country!)
Your physiology may indeed be unusual, but
with the variations in instinct of an entire
world at their access, you and ItaX aren't
going to stump them completely. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">

CyberCorn Entropic · Post by **CyberCorn Entropic** » Thu Oct 04, 2001 4:10 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by LouisTh:
I disagree. If you've ever been to a bar, a church, or a sporting event, certainly you've seen humans who are embracing something besides raw intellect. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> I am not condemning those things, it's just that intellectual response is not all it's hopped up to be. We humans react with our hearts, our gut feelings, and more, most of the time. I mean, have you ever said to yourself, "Although my coworker just made me look foolish in front of our boss to increase his social standing, I will not get mad and fight back because that is an instinct reserved for the lower primates." Of course not. I bet chimps would be the furthest thing from your mind. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... P>Actually, I don't think you're disagreeing at all. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> You merely said some things that I didn't put in my post for the simple reason that I painted myself into the wrong corner and then forgot that the corner I painted myself into had a door in it after all.
I really should have said "tend to consciously avoid instinct" and "consciously embrace their intellect" in my initial statement. As you touched on, just because we think we embrace our intellect, that doesn't mean we use it. Fortunately, we have instinct to fall back on even though many of us think we don't have it. Unfortunately, we don't always moderate that instinct we think we don't have beneficially.
(Remember, thinking something is true doesn't mean it is true.)------------------
TARDIS EXPRESS - When it absolutely, positively needs to be there yesterday.

Genecatlow · Post by **Genecatlow** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 12:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sunblaze Wildfire:
 Oh, come on, Gene. With over a dozen furry speices, a human, and a drake in this female gold Wyrm, I bet I can cause so curiosity about me and stump someone. ={:8}
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Stump 'someone' yes... stump a repositor, no.
In case I have to point it out, they not only
handle information on the instincts of the
furry world, they are sucessfully keeping the
knowledge of an entirely separate species of
intelligent life a secret from both the furry
and the human world. You don't stump
such an organization easily. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">

Sunblaze Wildfire · Post by **Sunblaze Wildfire** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 5:12 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by genecatlow:

Sunblaze, the BII offices in Furriston don't
simply have access to the records of those
who live in Furriston alone (extensive as
those records alone may be). The quantifying
and recording of instinctive behavior among
the furries of their world takes place all
over their world. (Canovia, for example, has
its own equivalent of the BII in its country!)
Your physiology may indeed be unusual, but
with the variations in instinct of an entire
world at their access, you and ItaX aren't
going to stump them completely. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... UOTE>Oh, come on, Gene. With over a dozen furry speices, a human, and a drake in this female gold Wyrm, I bet I can cause so curiosity about me and stump someone. ={:8}------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)

Sunblaze Wildfire · Post by **Sunblaze Wildfire** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 5:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by genecatlow:
 Stump 'someone' yes... stump a repositor, no.
In case I have to point it out, they not only
handle information on the instincts of the
furry world, they are sucessfully keeping the
knowledge of an entirely separate species of
intelligent life a secret from both the furry
and the human world. You don't stump
such an organization easily. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... UOTE>Oh, come on. There has to be something about me that will stump them. ={:8}------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)[This message has been edited by Sunblaze Wildfire (edited 10-05-2001).]

ItaX · Post by **ItaX** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 5:26 am

Hmm...Should I consider this a challenge Gene <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!? I love challenges...and with Sunblaze's help I'm quit sure we can at least make the repositors spend three or four times the time they usually take on searching their files <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">!!------------------
Light and darkness are as one in my soul!

CyberCorn Entropic · Post by **CyberCorn Entropic** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 5:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ItaX:
Hmm...Should I consider this a challenge Gene <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!? I love challenges...and with Sunblaze's help I'm quit sure we can at least make the repositors spend three or four times the time they usually take on searching their files <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... UOTE>No doubt at least some of the people at BII would love to be stumped, because it means a challenge and they probably love a challenge too!------------------
TARDIS EXPRESS - When it absolutely, positively needs to be there yesterday.

Genecatlow · Post by **Genecatlow** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 6:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sunblaze Wildfire:
 Oh, come on. There has to be something about me that will stump them. ={:8}
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well... no. There doesn't have to be
anything about you that would stump them. It
is technically possible that there would be
something about you that would be considerably
more difficult to figure out than the mundane,
run-of-the-mill evaluations that they do on a
daily basis. But keep in mind: their world has
a LOT of different species of furries in it.
And through the eons there have been a LOT of
different pairings between those species. It
isn't unusual for them to have a reptile come
to them to find out about its odd mammalian
instincts it suddenly started having, or an
avian type wanting to find out why it feels
so much more comfortable burrowing like a
gopher. They have the experience of dealing
with a WORLD full of instincts, and the mixes
and crossing-overs that come with it. You may
(and in fact probably will) be an unusual case,
but you'll be evaluated by an agency that has
experience with an entire world-full of cases.
So your stumping them is a possibility, but a
very, very slim one.

Genecatlow · Post by **Genecatlow** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 6:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by CyberCorn Entropic:
 No doubt at least some of the people at BII would love to be stumped, because it means a challenge and they probably love a challenge too!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Some challenges they do take a fancy to,
indeed. As you might guess, a number of them
don't particularly care for the challenge of
keeping the knowledge of the shadow-people
from the rest of the world. But a particularly
unique combination of instincts would indeed
arouse the deductive spirits of some of the
more competetive repositors. The trickier and
more unusual a particular case were, the more
a really skilled repositor would want to rise
to the challenge. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">

Genecatlow · Post by **Genecatlow** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 6:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ItaX:
Hmm...Should I consider this a challenge Gene <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">!? I love challenges...and with Sunblaze's help I'm quit sure we can at least make the repositors spend three or four times the time they usually take on searching their files <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, it isn't meant to be a challenge, ItaX.
The BII isn't anyone's enemy, and it doesn't
exist to "take on" all comers - it's an agency
that fulfills a specific function in their
world, by gathering, processing and providing
concise and important information to the
furries of their world. You might, indeed, be
a more unusual case than they are used to,
and true enough, some repositors might feel a
certain degree of professional pride at taking
on such an unusual case. But with all said and
done, the only result would be not a trophy
awarded to the winner, nor a "return match"
promised to the loser, but simply the job that
repositors do day in and day out. It would no
more be within the context of the BII to
engage in a "challenge" with you or Sunblaze
about your instinctive uniqueness than it
would be for the DMV to "challenge" you or
Sunblaze to a road race for you to win your
driver's licence. That simply isn't what they
are there for.
[This message has been edited by genecatlow (edited 10-05-2001).]

Shad · Post by **Shad** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 7:11 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by CyberCorn Entropic:
 Actually, I don't think you're disagreeing at all. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> You merely said some things that I didn't put in my post for the simple reason that I painted myself into the wrong corner and then forgot that the corner I painted myself into had a door in it after all.
I really should have said "tend to consciously avoid instinct" and "consciously embrace their intellect" in my initial statement. As you touched on, just because we think we embrace our intellect, that doesn't mean we use it. Fortunately, we have instinct to fall back on even though many of us think we don't have it. Unfortunately, we don't always moderate that instinct we think we don't have beneficially.
(Remember, thinking something is true doesn't mean it is true.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I (human form) trust my instinct more than most people seem to, it allows for better understand what a non-sentient creature wants out of you, almost seeming like telepathy but it is just trusting what it makes me feel about the creature, I'm usually right but the years have dulled human instinct in such areas.

Sunblaze Wildfire · Post by **Sunblaze Wildfire** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 1:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by genecatlow:
Well... no. There doesn't have to be anything about you that would stump them. It is technically possible that there would be something about you that would be considerably more difficult to figure out than the mundane, run-of-the-mill evaluations that they do on a daily basis. But keep in mind: their world has a LOT of different species of furries in it.
And through the eons there have been a LOT of different pairings between those species. It isn't unusual for them to have a reptile come to them to find out about its odd mammalian
instincts it suddenly started having, or an
avian type wanting to find out why it feels
so much more comfortable burrowing like a
gopher. They have the experience of dealing
with a WORLD full of instincts, and the mixes
and crossing-overs that come with it. You may
(and in fact probably will) be an unusual case, but you'll be evaluated by an agency that has experience with an entire world-full of cases. So your stumping them is a possibility, but a very, very slim one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It would be nice feeling, if I can help them find a new instinct for them to file. Or have them help me figure myself out more being a creature of many parts.------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)

Genecatlow · Post by **Genecatlow** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 6:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sunblaze Wildfire:
 It would be nice feeling, if I can help them find a new instinct for them to file. Or have them help me figure myself out more being a creature of many parts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>They often encounter those who have many
unusual instincts withn them. And they would
be more than happy to assist you, should you
want their help. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">

Sunblaze Wildfire · Post by **Sunblaze Wildfire** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 8:45 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by genecatlow:
 They often encounter those who have many
unusual instincts withn them. And they would
be more than happy to assist you, should you
want their help. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... QUOTE>I would like to be helped. ={:8} I'm still trying to get use to being a Wyrm and I need all the help I need. It is like trying to figure out yourself again. One of these days I should write a book about being a Wyrm. *laughs* Besides, there isn't a lot of info about Wyrms in my world, because there isn't a lot of us around.------------------
<A HREF="http://www.sunblazewildfire.com/" TARGET=_blank>Sunblaze Wildfire</A> (a.k.a. <A HREF="http://www.bostonandshaun.com/" TARGET=_blank>Shaun Reveal</A>)