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I have come across several fictional backgrounds that have similarities with our favorite comic strip...hey, I even put a couple attempts of my own on the web! There are fantasy ones, of course (Alan Dean Foster comes to mind), but since I prefer science fiction, most of them I know are of this genre. Anybody got any other on how humans and furries might have trouble co-existing?<P>Kalifornia: A Novel 1993
Marc Laidlaw <P>Chimera 2000
Will Shetterly<P>Forests of the Night 1993
Emperors of the Twilight 1994
Spector of the Dawn 1994
Fearful Symmetries 1999
All by S. Andrew Swann, a fellow Clevelander. He has so many similarities in his background to one of my two backgrounds, it's almost spooky. Although the books came out before I posted my little essay, I had been devising my story background for years before that (honest!).<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B>I have come across several fictional backgrounds that have similarities with our favorite comic strip...hey, I even put a couple attempts of my own on the web! There are fantasy ones, of course (Alan Dean Foster comes to mind), but since I prefer science fiction, most of them I know are of this genre. Anybody got any other on how humans and furries might have trouble co-existing? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've read Swann's books, but I must admit, my forays were primarily into the fantasy genre, though they usually lacked any humans mucking things up. There is the Spellsinger series by Alan Dean Foster (as you mentioned). However, the only other one with humans I can come up with off the top of my head is:<P>Animist 2000
- Eve Forward<P>I'm drawing a blank for any others at the moment.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B>Although the books came out before I posted my little essay, I had been devising my story background for years before that (honest!).
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The same can be said for me too. I started to create my own shared world way back in late '93/early '94, originally based as a rip-off of a mix of "Spellsinger"and Vicky Wyman's "Xanadu" but has evolved so far away that any similarities are coincidental. I've shifted my focus from character to character, from place to place, from timeframe to timeframe (the older stories becoming a framework for the history of my world). I think I've found the right character, one I can relate to (even if she's a female ermine and I'm neither), but, unlike you, nothing's come out in the light of the public yet. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/frown.gif"> I'd be envious but that only wastes valuable energy.<P>------------------
"Please keep claws, fangs, and all rotten fruits and vegetables to yourself at all times." - Mngmt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B>I have come across several fictional backgrounds that have similarities with our favorite comic strip...hey, I even put a couple attempts of my own on the web! There are fantasy ones, of course (Alan Dean Foster comes to mind), but since I prefer science fiction, most of them I know are of this genre. Anybody got any other on how humans and furries might have trouble co-existing?<P>Kalifornia: A Novel 1993
Marc Laidlaw <P>Chimera 2000
Will Shetterly<P>Forests of the Night 1993
Emperors of the Twilight 1994
Spector of the Dawn 1994
Fearful Symmetries 1999
All by S. Andrew Swann, a fellow Clevelander. He has so many similarities in his background to one of my two backgrounds, it's almost spooky. Although the books came out before I posted my little essay, I had been devising my story background for years before that (honest!).
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh, we believe you! Or... <I>would</I> believe you,
if you told us where your online stuff could
be found. So we can check on you! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by genecatlow:
<B> Oh, we believe you! Or... <I>would</I> believe you,
if you told us where your online stuff could
be found. So we can check on you! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... OTE><P>Gee, my first reply! Hope I do this right!
I'll do my other one first. <A HREF="http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.cgi?1465" TARGET=_blank>www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.cgi?1465</A>
(hope I did *that* right!)
Inspired by a dream where Alvin the Chipmunk dies in my bedroom, so this one at least has GOTTA be unique!
I once tried to roleplay a mongoose character on FurryMUCK who fell through a dimensional vortex, fleeing a lynch mob in Pascua (this world's equivalent of Florida).
His name was Herpert (English is accented differently in Aesop). About the time I was doing this, someone who catalogs GURPS alternate worlds asked how Infinity Unlimited would react to a world-jumping mongoose aesop. Coincidences like that almost make me believe in ESP!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by genecatlow:
<B> Oh, we believe you! Or... <I>would</I> believe you,
if you told us where your online stuff could
be found. So we can check on you! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... OTE><P>The background I was a little...nervous...about is on<P>lists.integral.org/archives/tsa-talk/2000-March/039436.html<P>lists.integral.org/archives/tsa-talk/2000-April/040162.html<P>lists.integral.org/archives/tsa-talk/2001-August/052808.html<P>Originally, my version was even closer to Swann's than it is now! For example, I wanted to call my furries something beginning with the letter "m", in order to call the SS equivalent "nimrods". Like, oh, say, "moreau". OOPS.
Or the fact that, being Catholic, I wanted my Church to be "right", and define mammaloids as having souls, with the "born agains" disputting this...vehemently.
But golly, that's just the religious division Swann has! So I just let my Church handle this in its all too frequent glacial manner (technically, John Paul II removed the last legal impediments to a Catholic believing the Earth orbited the sun...and these impediments were acually enforced into the mid 19th century) This had the effect of making my background even grimmer than I would have made it otherwise. Actually, there are enough differences between us (Swann never really lets his moreau gain the upper paw, even in his hostile takeover sequel...certainly not as dramatically as I do!!) that it is obvious these are different backgrounds...but I still might have felt better if he hailed from Cleveland, Tennessee
instead of Cleveland, Ohio <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B> The background I was a little...nervous...about is on<P>lists.integral.org/archives/tsa-talk/2000-March/039436.html<P>lists.integral.org/archives/tsa-talk/2000-April/040162.html<P>lists.integral.org/archives/tsa-talk/2001-August/052808.html<P>Hmmm...the lack of a www seems to be messing up my attempts to check my typing. Just in case I goofed, here's another way. Go to "transform.to" (another non-www URL)
They have a link to TSA-Talk in a section all by itself. Go there and look up in the archives "The mammaloids" on 6 Mar 2000,
"Just a Normal Conversation" on 24 Apr 2000, and "Watermelon kids" on 30 Aug 2001.
BTW, there is a RPG game by Palladium books,
kinda crossing Gamma World with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, that shows the bigotry that might exist between humans and furries.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B>I once tried to roleplay a mongoose character on FurryMUCK who fell through a dimensional vortex, fleeing a lynch mob in Pascua (this world's equivalent of Florida).
His name was Herpert (English is accented differently in Aesop). About the time I was doing this, someone who catalogs GURPS alternate worlds asked how Infinity Unlimited would react to a world-jumping mongoose aesop. Coincidences like that almost make me believe in ESP!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, secret alien implants in your brain were being tapped by an unholy alliance between the government, the media, and Gene Catlow's evil, future twin clone from an alternate universe. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B>(Swann never lets his moreau gain the upper paw, even in his hostile takeover sequel...certainly not as dramatically as I do!!)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Seriously though, your posts made me realize that in all the human/furries stories that I am familiar with in which there is conflict between the two, it is humans that are the dominant force and the furries must prove that they are not inferior. Where are the stories in which the <I>humans</I> are oppressed by furries? I'm not talking about humans vs. evolved dinosaurs (as in "West of Eden" and the others in its series) or humans dominated by dragons or the like. Rather, I refer to a shared world where various furries (as in Gene Catlow's world) are the dominant world force with humans as an "untouchable" caste. "Planet of the Apes" just occurred to me (look for the original novel the whole franchise was built on, not the recent movie adaptation), but what about worlds where foxes are the ruling force or how about penguins, horses, or wolves? (No werewolf or other werecreature business, please.)
Alternately, there are the shared worlds like "Spellsinger" where humans are considered to be just another furry, no more oppressive and dominant than the other species. "Mus of Kerbridge" doesn't quite count as I would like to omit "near-humans" (centaurs, satyrs, harpies, etc.) from this. "The Chronicles of Narnia" are also out as the humans were the prime movers of Narnia's civilization and destiny. Are there any stories (besides "Wind in the Willows") where civilization was built hand-in-paw by both humans and furries? (Gene Catlow and Furriston-style furries, for the record.)<P>Gee, I'm long-winded. Now, if only it was as easy to be as long-winded with my own stories while juggling in something interesting to read while I'm at it.<P>------------------
"Please keep claws, fangs, and all rotten fruits and vegetables to yourself at all times." - Mngmt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B> Gee, my first reply! Hope I do this right!
I'll do my other one first. <A HREF="http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.cgi?1465" TARGET=_blank>www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.cgi?1465</A>
(hope I did *that* right!)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, just fine. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Inspired by a dream where Alvin the Chipmunk dies in my bedroom, so this one at least has GOTTA be unique!
I once tried to roleplay a mongoose character on FurryMUCK who fell through a dimensional vortex, fleeing a lynch mob in Pascua (this world's equivalent of Florida).
His name was Herpert (English is accented differently in Aesop). About the time I was doing this, someone who catalogs GURPS alternate worlds asked how Infinity Unlimited would react to a world-jumping mongoose aesop. Coincidences like that almost make me believe in ESP!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I see that what you have mostly created are
environments and timelines/overviews for
adventures. Most of them being plausible
enough to be scary and intelligent enough to
be practical. My own plans for my comic are
to outline their world as a society in flux,
hopefully full of positive change (though that
is by no means guaranteed). O_O<P>

Just to let you know...
The Transformation Story Archive has moved its stories to a private area. Google.com will no longer be able to list them (this is what caused this...some people don't want their stories publically available, for various reasons). If you want to find out about my mammaloid background now, you will have to join the maillist.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B>Just to let you know...
The Transformation Story Archive has moved its stories to a private area. Google.com will no longer be able to list them (this is what caused this...some people don't want their stories publically available, for various reasons). If you want to find out about my mammaloid background now, you will have to join the maillist.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm... okay, I guess that will have to be a
choice left up to the individual members of
this forum.<P>

OK, how about "anti-Furristons"?
Where are some real good visions of how humans and furries could make a functioning society together without being on the edge of genocidal war, but still stay separate species?
Hmmm...tough to think of any webstrips like this (or even like Gene Catlow)...they seem either to have no humans at all (Ozy & Millie, Sabrina Online) or humans exist in such a weird "off panel" way that it would take an encyclopedia article just to explain how (Class Menagerie, Kevin & Kell) or the furries are a minute, infinitesimal part of the population (Freefall).
A lot of animated cartoons from Warner Brothers, and especially Hanna-Barbera, are closer to what I am thinking (Disney seems to either have the furries be a secret society, like Rescue Rangers, or all furry without humans). Perhaps the best example (at least its my favorite, and sort of has the "atmosphere" I'm trying to describe) is Top Cat. IIRC, in this show cats, and *only* cats, were anthropomorphic. T.C. could impersonate, say, a bank president, and nobody would think it strange that a feline could hold such a position (something that a Negro con artist might have had a hard time pulling off in 1961!) It was obvious that the gang were cats...the police chief once called T.C. "Furface" the way he might call a redhead who had irritated him "Red", and Spook's tail once got caught in a jail door (BTW, my other favorite cartoon, Alvin, never *really* made it clear that the "boys" were chipmunks) But other animals (an anteater, a dog, even a chimpanzee) were like Dino in the Flintstones. Yet the rules for living quarters (an ashcan?) or clothing seemed more...freeform...for the felines.
(Another BTW I noticed with the clothing of the cats...male cats showed their tails, female cats did not. I like the attention to details like that, and the consistency that was shown in regard to said details).
Anybody got any other observations, or pointers to other such "utopian" mixed societies, as opposed to "dystopian"?<p>[This message has been edited by Tom Mazanec (edited 09-29-2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B>OK, how about "anti-Furristons"?
Where are some real good visions of how humans and furries could make a functioning society together without being on the edge of genocidal war, but still stay separate species?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Alan Dean Foster's <I>Spellsinger</I> series is a good example, though it tends to stick to light humor rather obsessivly (and is not good for younger audiences).
And what about that classic among classics, <I>Wind in the Willows</I>?<P>------------------
TARDIS EXPRESS - When it absolutely, positively needs to be there yesterday.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Mazanec:
<B>OK, how about "anti-Furristons"?
Where are some real good visions of how humans and furries could make a functioning society together without being on the edge of genocidal war, but still stay separate species?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, it depends on what category of fantasy
you want to include. Much of the traditional
uses of anthropomorphic animals in fantasy
conforms to that vision to some degree. Many
ancient fables and legends had anthro animals
in them, and the conflict between them and
humans was often nonexistant. Neither the
humans nor the animals seemed to have any need
to fight each other <I>solely</I> on the basis
of being a separate species. Animals in fables
could have their own culture, and often did,
but their use in those stories was often to
frame a certain trait of humanity that the
storyteller wanted the reader to perceive in
that particular species of animal. Which is
where a lot of anthro stereotyping went on
(foxes are sly, wolves are evil, etc.) But as
far as humans and animals simply being able
to live peacefully together, there are many
examples in literature to be found.
<P>

If you are interested in Science Fiction and Fantasy, you might try C.J.Cherryh's "Chanur" series of stories, starting with "The Pride of Chanur".
Ms. Cherryh creates a complex society of alien civilizations, and then slips in a wild card in the form of a single human. He has no weapons, no tools, his intelligence is neither greater nor less than the average, and he knows not one single word of any dialect spoken throughout the "known space" of the Compact. The story is not about this human, but more about the Hani crew (lion-like anthropomorphics) who see him as a bargaining chip at first, and later as a crew member. Fun story!

Thanks for the tips!
I am humbled to have to admit that my brain hiccupped and forgot Wind in the Willows (it also forgot Sonic the Hedgehog as an example of a "Furriston"...maybe I'm reading/watching too many furry mileaus?
Nahhh...)
Anyway, I look forward to how Albert will
develop this particular mileau!
(are you an uncle, Mr. Temple? Can you float if you laugh? ) <p>[This message has been edited by Tom Mazanec (edited 09-30-2001).]

It has occurred to me that there is a story background, often featured on the Transformation Story Archive, that, while not the kind of "furry" background that such mileaus as we have mentioned are, has many similarities with them. The Blind Pig is set in a near future world where a virus imported in a Martian soil sample transforms about one tenth of the world's population in various ways, most often into "furries". The stories are often titled TBP:whatever, to help you find them in the archives. This is a good reason for fans of Gene Catlow to try the mail list...I think such people would enjoy the stories. Also, you can set mail delivery "off", if you are afraid of the volume of mail the list sees. You can also find other stories set in this universe on other web sites by using, for example, Google. And of course, there are other fascinating worlds in the archives, such as the Human Extinction Agency, Winds of Change, and many others.

An Anti-Frriston could be the Cattenis from Freedom's Landing by Anne McCaffrey. They are a cat-like anthro race whose beginnings on a high-grav planet make them 'supermen' and they subjugate several alien races, including humans.
The book has the main character (a human) falling in love with a renegade Catteni, and trying to forge a new life on a new planet. Good Read.<P>------------------

For those interested in Blind Pig stories, my site has links to several archives of them. (see Shuttle bay 1; aka the links page.) Plus there are the two I wrote on my shared worlds page.<P>------------------
Richard Reid
Captain; Webship Corwinda
http://www.ctnis.com/~corwinda

I believe there is an archive of furry stories called Miavir, but if I recall correctly, most of them are rated R (or even X). Anybody know any furry archives on the web (besides TSA) that are more like the comic strip or the stories I mentioned? You can tella lot of great stories without using anatomical interactions!

Mia's is an index of stories, and includes plenty of G to PG stories. <A HREF="http://furry.ao.net/miavir/stories/" TARGET=_blank>http://furry.ao.net/miavir/stories/</A>
<P>------------------
Richard Reid
Captain; Webship Corwinda
http://www.ctnis.com/~corwinda