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mcDuffies wrote:But truman himself is very limpily concieved character. Which kinda makes sence if you want to present it as network molded his characters during the time.

Yes. Actually, Truman Show is an example of a concept-based work, which is more plot centered than character. Truman might make a few decisions, but they're based almost entirely on his strange circumstances.

yeahduff wrote:

mcDuffies wrote:But truman himself is very limpily concieved character. Which kinda makes sence if you want to present it as network molded his characters during the time.

Yes. Actually, Truman Show is an example of a concept-based work, which is more plot centered than character. Truman might make a few decisions, but they're based almost entirely on his strange circumstances.

But I think its kind of a weird catch 22 becuase yes we have the plot, that takes poor Truman by the balls so to speak, but Truman does break out of the box. Then you open up a whole can o worms with nature vs nurture and every other darn thing. Was it simply becuase of his weird life state that made him leave that studio or was it HIM, was it his own volition that made him want to leave. I say yes becuase even when he was little and completely unaware that he was living in a bubble, he wanted to travel the world. That's something about his character and that want to travel eventually unravels the Truman show.

Big fan of epics, myself. But a GOOD epic also has strong character focus.

Indiana Jones is afraid of snakes. Who cares? I’m afraid of spiders – we all have our fears. Indiana Jones must enter a chamber full of snakes to get the Ark before the Nazis can use it to conquer the world. Okay, NOW Indy’s phobia is noteworthy. It just made the whole situation more interesting. The plot forces Indy’s choices, but his personality and preferences intensify the story’s appeal.

An epic typically features heroes who Do What Must Be Done. But the good epics also have the heroes overcoming their flaws in order to succeed.

td501 wrote:An epic typically features heroes who Do What Must Be Done. But the good epics also have the heroes overcoming their flaws in order to succeed.

like a drunk who makes it to the bathroom in time.

Character should dictate plot. If the character isn't plausible, the plot is forced.---Al

LibertyCabbage wrote:
Re: bustertheclown,

You seem to be criticizing over-commercialization more than character-driven plots. You refer to "a character that was once as deep as any ocean;" so, are these earlier "great" issues, regarded individually, really artistically diminished because of their successors? Or, are you suggesting that a character should only be considered in terms of the sum of all of his/her collective appearances? What about some writers handling the character better or worse than others?

That wasn't really the point I was getting at. There are plenty of small projects and lone creators who just have absolutely no idea at all about when their characters have stopped being interesting and multi-dimensional. Sure, the first examples that come to mind are the ones that are used as corporate property, and have been touched by countless hands, because those are the ones that are the most visible and the most screwed up. However, I don't even really have a problem with that scenario, because so many of those characters started out as archetypes anyway.

I don't really know how to clarify what I'm trying to state, here. While I believe that any story has the capacity to go on too long, I think that the character-driven side is the one that has a greater potential to show the effects of length, as well as have a tendency to actually not find closure and end at a good time. For me, as part of the audience, it becomes very tedious to look at, and I tend to just end it myself, by cutting it out of my reading list.

Tentoumushi wrote: But I think its kind of a weird catch 22 becuase yes we have the plot, that takes poor Truman by the balls so to speak, but Truman does break out of the box. Then you open up a whole can o worms with nature vs nurture and every other darn thing. Was it simply becuase of his weird life state that made him leave that studio or was it HIM, was it his own volition that made him want to leave. I say yes becuase even when he was little and completely unaware that he was living in a bubble, he wanted to travel the world. That's something about his character and that want to travel eventually unravels the Truman show.

Plot of the film is that Truman is captured, then he gets the strength to run away, and then he runs away. Truman's character serves this plot all the time. Truman is fighting against the corporation that captured him and against the plot of the show that they are producing, and not against the plot of the film "Truman's show". Yes, it's a plot-driven film thoroughly and his moral dilemma, his escape and even questions you have just asked, are all part of film's plot.

alschroeder wrote:Character should dictate plot. If the character isn't plausible, the plot is forced.---Al

I would have thought MM was plot-based, actually. The main characters always have to react to external forces. In fact, this applies to most (if not all) superhero comics.

- Joel Fagin

mcDuffies wrote:

Tentoumushi wrote: But I think its kind of a weird catch 22 becuase yes we have the plot, that takes poor Truman by the balls so to speak, but Truman does break out of the box. Then you open up a whole can o worms with nature vs nurture and every other darn thing. Was it simply becuase of his weird life state that made him leave that studio or was it HIM, was it his own volition that made him want to leave. I say yes becuase even when he was little and completely unaware that he was living in a bubble, he wanted to travel the world. That's something about his character and that want to travel eventually unravels the Truman show.

Plot of the film is that Truman is captured, then he gets the strength to run away, and then he runs away. Truman's character serves this plot all the time. Truman is fighting against the corporation that captured him and against the plot of the show that they are producing, and not against the plot of the film "Truman's show". Yes, it's a plot-driven film thoroughly and his moral dilemma, his escape and even questions you have just asked, are all part of film's plot.

Fair enough xD. I'm not too passionate about the Truman Show If we were talking...hmmm The Portrait of Dorian Grey then I'd probably be more emotionally invested *loves that book, go Basil!*

bustertheclown wrote: That wasn't really the point I was getting at. There are plenty of small projects and lone creators who just have absolutely no idea at all about when their characters have stopped being interesting and multi-dimensional. Sure, the first examples that come to mind are the ones that are used as corporate property, and have been touched by countless hands, because those are the ones that are the most visible and the most screwed up. However, I don't even really have a problem with that scenario, because so many of those characters started out as archetypes anyway.

I don't really know how to clarify what I'm trying to state, here. While I believe that any story has the capacity to go on too long, I think that the character-driven side is the one that has a greater potential to show the effects of length, as well as have a tendency to actually not find closure and end at a good time. For me, as part of the audience, it becomes very tedious to look at, and I tend to just end it myself, by cutting it out of my reading list.

Maybe what you're getting at is that characters can easily became self-serving at which point author thinks that it's enough to have them doing something, without the need for the plot to progress or lead anywhere. There ain't many characters so interesting that looking at them sitting on the sofa (or doing any same thing over and over for entire comic) would be compelling enough.
I think there is equivallent danger of having a plot-driven comic that's kind of a steam-roller, just going and going for it's own sake... but in webcomics people are usually trying to work with characters primarily, so we see faulty examples of first the most. I can remember reading through many comics where someone just decided to base characters on a bunch of his roommates and then draw them on and on doing absolutely nothing. "Real life" was too popular for our good.