Who actually owns Gen Chan?

Jops · Post by **Jops** » Tue May 22, 2007 11:20 pm

Today i received a mail from someone asking me permission to use Gen-Chan, making a cameo appearance of her.

While i don't really see a problem with that, a question arised: am i actually the one who's entitled to say yes or no?

For the record:
I'm the one who designed what was adopted as Gen-Chan's official look, but...
the 1st incarnation of Gen-Chan was actually drawn by Starline and we may even give some credits to RPin who come up with the idea of having a mascotte in the first place (Gen-Chan is, after all, a replacement of his Space-Chan after the name change).

So, here's the real question: who actually owns Gen-Chan?

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:17 am

Comic Genesis the company, I suspect. She doesn't really have a set design, although yours is definitely the most iconic, Jops.

...

Now I'm all curious how it even got started. Probably a thread about those OS tans.

- Joel Fagin

Turnsky · Post by **Turnsky** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:20 am

offhand, i'd say Gen-Chan's the "property" of the powers that be here on comicgen, namely Kisai, etc.

Since she does represent comicgen after all.

Kirb · Post by **Kirb** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:51 am

Gen-chan belongs to Comicgenesis just as much as Wiki-tan belongs to Wikipedia, or any other chan.

Not at all.

She's not copyrighted, as far as I know. And that would make the difference.

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:13 am

Kirb wrote:She's not copyrighted, as far as I know. And that would make the difference.

Oh, she's copyrighted alright. She was created, ergo she is copyrighted. Most businesses have a clause for employees somewhere that says that anything you create at work or at the request of work is copyrighted to them. I'd be very surprised if CG had such a thing.

Which means Jops owns copyright on his own design. I have no idea who first pitched the name, especially since it was probably Gentan to start with.

- Joel Fagin

Fesworks · Post by **Fesworks** » Wed May 23, 2007 3:02 am

Joel Fagin wrote:
Kirb wrote:She's not copyrighted, as far as I know. And that would make the difference.
Oh, she's copyrighted alright. She was created, ergo she is copyrighted. Most businesses have a clause for employees somewhere that says that anything you create at work or at the request of work is copyrighted to them. I'd be very surprised if CG had such a thing.

Which means Jops owns copyright on his own design. I have no idea who first pitched the name, especially since it was probably Gentan to start with.

- Joel Fagin

According to the official CG Wiki pages, I believe it says that the copyright belongs to Jops.... unless I looked at it wrong.

I had sent an e-mail to Kelly Price, asking the same thing, but had not heard anything back about it.

Fesworks · Post by **Fesworks** » Wed May 23, 2007 3:11 am

Hmmm.. according to the Wiki

http://cgwiki.comicgenesis.com/index.php/Mascots

Kasie Keen is the only CG Mascot that is copyrighted outright.

each and every other "chan" is copyrighted by who made the individual drawing.

auuugh! an official note on this would be useful...

I'm just gonna go ahead and use her, but in my own design (like others that made designs)... and Starline or CG gets upset, I'll remove it from the canon strip and make it a seperate "bonus art" thing.

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:20 am

fesworks wrote:I'm just gonna go ahead and use her, but in my own design (like others that made designs)... and Starline or CG gets upset, I'll remove it from the canon strip and make it a seperate "bonus art" thing.

Oh, it's you? Well, I wouldn't worry about it. No one's likely to get upset. CG's a community more than it is a business and no one has ever minded this sort of thing before. The admins don't get in people's way like that.

Apart from everything else, Genchan is very much a community effort.*

- Joel Fagin

* I'm pretty sure it was me who chose Jop's Genchan as the default.

Vorticus · Post by **Vorticus** » Wed May 23, 2007 10:22 am

Joel Fagin wrote:* I'm pretty sure it was me who chose Jop's Genchan as the default.

It was an excellent choice.

Jops · Post by **Jops** » Wed May 23, 2007 10:46 am

Joel Fagin wrote:* I'm pretty sure it was me who chose Jop's Genchan as the default.

Yeah, you did!

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Wed May 23, 2007 11:10 am

Gen-Chan is an open source character. Or at least, if you're going to make any clear arguement about her that holds water, that would be the best arguement. Anyone is allowed... even encouraged... to draw their own Gen-Chan.

There'd be outrage if Gen-Chan were misused or used greedily to make lots of money, but I don't know that anyone could ever press a case for needing permission to draw their own variation of Gen-Chan and use her in any otherwise harmless way.

On the other hand, like in any case of using someone else's work - if you wanted to use Jops specific version of Gen-Chan, you'd need his permission.

Fesworks · Post by **Fesworks** » Wed May 23, 2007 11:37 am

Well, I was going to draw my own version (to keep with the idea that everyone does that).

But what do you guys think?

The "young" Gen-Chan or the "older" Gen-Chan?

Jops · Post by **Jops** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:07 pm

rkolter wrote:if you wanted to use Jops specific version of Gen-Chan, you'd need his permission.

Doesn't seem to be the case, but it's granted anyway.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:09 pm

By the way, Jops, congrats for winning Euro cup.

Jops · Post by **Jops** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:08 pm

mcDuffies wrote:By the way, Jops, congrats for winning Euro cup.

o_O^?!?
I'm sorry... winning what?

Is it something related to soccer? If so this would explain all the shouting and loud cheering i heard before.

VinnieD · Post by **VinnieD** » Wed May 23, 2007 9:52 pm

Public Domain? Fair Use? Creative Commons? One of those I'd assume.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu May 24, 2007 1:26 pm

Jops wrote:
mcDuffies wrote:By the way, Jops, congrats for winning Euro cup.
o_O^?!?
I'm sorry... winning what?

Is it something related to soccer? If so this would explain all the shouting and loud cheering i heard before.

Milano won the Euro championship, didn't it?

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Thu May 24, 2007 4:35 pm

Not Euro Cup. It was club football, not an international contest. AC Milan beat Liverpool and won the UEFA Champions League.

Euro Cup is next year.

1jim1 · Post by **1jim1** » Thu May 24, 2007 11:00 pm

First of all: any information I provide is not to be construed as legal advice, nor should it be relied upon in the course of undertaking any endeavor, legal or otherwise. For all and any undertakings requiring a question of law, retain bar certified legal counsel. I REPEAT: DO NOT RELY ON THIS ADVICE!

Now that I've covered my derrière:

Copyright vests automatically upon creation of the work in the author threof. Derivations of the work (such as new versions of old characters) vest copyright in the derivative artist solely to the extent of the derivative work's original features. Copyright will only vest in a legal person (Comic Genesis people) if the work was prepared under the company's direction as part of the author's stated duties as an employee thereof. Therefore, under the present circumstances, Starline holds the copyright in the character generally, Jops to the extent of any derivation, Comic Genesis not at all unless there was a written employment agreement where preparation of such was part of Starline's duties. End result: can't use character(at all) without permission, license or assignment from Starline. Can't use character as currently created without Jops' permission. Written employment agreement can have modified this situation.

There are plenty of sources of information online concerning copyright, not all of which is reliable, but which can be sorted through to get the gist of it. Oh, and in case you didn't see it before ...

DO NOT CONSTRUE ANY STATEMENTS MADE BY ME WITHIN THIS FORUM AS LEGAL ADVICE.

Yes, I know I'm paranoid. So sue m... no, actually, don't do that at all. Please.

Fesworks · Post by **Fesworks** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:59 am

K.

But I'm just gonna do it, and then credit all three sources and get by with Free Use.