leperdoctor wrote:I always imagined the sex (or lack thereof) to be a recurring sort of joke
Funnily enough, I always imagined Dominic Deegan to be a sort of ongoing joke.
leperdoctor wrote:You have to admit, when he does end up making major plot holes, he manages to fix them rather nicely. (for the most part...like someone else here mentioned, the explanation for why Luna never got her teeth fixed was sort of odd.) The ones that you're picking our are very intricate, and I think most people would only notice them if they were really reading into the comic on purpose, to search for errors. Mind, this doesn't make them any less valid, but the plot holes that do exist are there because the explanation to fill them in is sort of odd (again, Luna's teeth) or it's simply been left out because it's not a huge issue in the world of the Deegan-verse.
As had been said, plot holes occur when you've either a) forgotten something you've written a long time ago; or b) haven't been paying the slightest bit of attention to what you were writing five minutes ago. Deegan has far too much of the latter.
Simply taking a moment to look at what he's writing would mean that Mookie would understand what a colossal mess he's churning out. And, in a perfect world, stop the damn thing and make everyone happy.
leperdoctor wrote:Man, paladins suck. They can't do anything cool. Except scream in moral outrage and charge in. At least White Mage had a cool hammer.
Here's another thought for the church; maybe he mentioned it because he's planning on returning to that plot point soon enough. Kinda like how he foreshadowed that Neileen was planning something with the Dominic-Luna relationship long before he actually engaged with the story, and like how he mentioned that Siggy had a rival but you don't get to see said rival until way later in the comic. After all, cramming in all explanations about every facet of the world his characters as based in just gets confusing and boring to read. Having them explained when it's time is better for the readers, so although it seems like a gaping plot hole at present time, he'll probably return to it eventually, especially if Gregory decided he's had enough time playing around. (he mentioned that he wanted some time to himself before he joined the church).
Saying Deegan has "foreshadowing" and "returning to plot points" is a bit insulting. It's more along the lines of "wait I wrote about WHAT? Christ, better cover my ass and mention it again." It's sloppy, amateur work. There's no cohesion, it's just built up patchwork.
But I guess if Mookie can prove to me that he's not just winging this entire thing, then I'll eat my own words. But since he never replies to e-mails, or even acknowledges the existence of people who dislike his work, that's unlikely.
leperdoctor wrote:Mmm. The ones I had in mind weren't minor characters, but they certainly weren't major players either, so the point that I had made becomes moot then, if you were simply referring to the characters in the main cast.
Consider a character's... uh... character to be much like their visual composition. You start off with a stick figure skeleton, add on some basic body mass, face shape, then move on to a face, clothes, haircut, etc.
Their personality works in much the same way. You cannot glean any information about someone if their entire role in the narrative is to be a cameo, some guy who goes "Look, up in the sky!" Their purpose is to move things along, or to provide some service that the main characters cannot fulfil themselves. Superman cannot yell out "Look, up in the sky!" Neither can the villain. It's the domain of the single-panel wonder, the average joe, pointing for all his worth and being visually relieved that Supes is on his way to save the day.
In the mind of a writer, background characters can have so much more. Personalities, histories, the works. But so far as the narrative is concerned, they are nobodies. Nothing. Their entire existence spans from when they first appear on panel to when they leave. It's pointless saying that, say, the original mayor of Bathis was a female character who didn't get beat up or whatever. She was "on screen" for two comics and only there to say "WELL DONE DOMINIC DEEGAN YOU ARE AWESOME."
leperdoctor wrote:
A lot of stories have characters beaten up to add drama (i.e, in Yu-Gi-Oh, they use cards instead of fists and that's a good thing because everyone would have a black eye- lots of characters in that show do anyways), and likewise in the Deegan-verse there do exist plots without fists being involved. Take the present one, with Neileen. So far, no one's been beaten up, though I can't see that lasting for very long. Also, with Nimmel (the dude with one eye), there was drama when he was about to commit suicide for betraying the confidence of Miranda and his classmates- no fists went flying there, though a giant hand of water might have intervened. Though I'll be the first to agree there's a lot of violence involved, I've always seen the violence as a side-effect to the drama occuring, as opposed to the cause of it.
A lot of stories have characters beaten up to add drama
because they are as terrible as Dominic Deegan. I admit, violence can be good in terms of narrative, but not if you constantly rely on it like Mookie does. Then again, Mookie knows nothing of narrative beyond what he's seen in animu~.
The suicide thing was pure AAAANGSST. Like I said before: when it's not a main character suffering a beating, it's AAAAAAAANGST.
Nimmel is a prime example of having a retarded name. I mean, Feenix? Why not just name him Cloud Phynal-Phantazee? Anyway, he's also a prime example of AAANGST. I'd bet money that Mookie has no Goddamn idea what drives someone to suicide, or has ever been legitimately depressed. And even if that
is true, by some cosmic chance, still doesn't change the fact he can't articulate it anyway due to him being
a very, very bad writer.
leperdoctor wrote:
The angst caused from Deegan having a necromancer for a brother is more because Jacob is out to kill everyone, as opposed to the typical "Poor me, my brother is evil, I must mope about it now." Dominic has never actually done that, I don't believe.
Not moping, but he does this thing where he stares off into the distance and frowns. Mookie thinks it makes him look serious, I bet. Just makes him look like he's trying to take a difficult dump.
leperdoctor wrote:Aw, man, an entirely new discussion can be created just based on who's supposed to be the main cast!! Doninc, Luna and Spark are definitely the three main ones, but Mookie cycles through his characters so often it's hard to pinpoint exactly who's who. Though if you mention Miranda, you have to throw in the bard father as well; and the nurse is only a romantic interest for Gregory, another guy. Recurring bad guys are Celesto, the dude with no eyes, Karnak and Jacob- all males. The first two recurring bad guys were Stunt and Bumper- also guys. Melna and Rachel were girls, and Melna seems to be more and more of a main cast type, but Rachel has basically vanished. There seems to be a greater presence of males in the plot than females, so I stand by my earlier conclusion- it may seem that more bad stuff happens to the gals because there's less of them, so it's more evident when it does happen. Heh, I think someone should make a chart of all the characters that ever appeared on Deegan and keep score of male vs female injuries. That's bound to be amusing.
I was simply going by "ones with most screen time and character development who also aren't dead". Well, character development as far as Dominic Deegan is concerned. There's a reason you can abbreviate the title to "2D".
Ahahahahaha, oh God, you're not serious, are you? Please, point me to something that's
not stolen wholesale from popular, contemporary sources. I'll go easy on you and say that it doesn't have to be original, because that'd be needle-in-haystack time.
leperdoctor wrote:The rules and the world haven't really changed- it's been added onto. For instance, take Naruto- they all start out in one village, and eventually you get to learn more and more about the surrounding lands. That's what Mookie has done; you start out in the little village of stupid people, then through travelling and adventures you learn more and more about the surroundings- the same is true for most anime, and most other stories, for that matter.
God only knows why Deegan started off living in a village seemingly populated by completely retarded individuals. You'd think they'd be, y'know, capable enough to cope with living in such a difficult environment. Maybe it was a Gotham thing and they were trying to drive him out.
I'd compare Deegan more with Pokemon than with Naruto. In Pokemon, Dr. What'shisface starts off telling Ash that there are 150 types of horrible vermin in the world
and that's it. Then about five billion episodes later, he finds out there are like five hundred more.
And there always have been. Maybe Dr. What'shisface is just an idiot, who knows. But that's the way Deegan works. Things just get bolted on with little thought of what came before. The only reason it's not that jarring is because of the twin factors of Mookie stealing everything and Mookie being such a bland writer.
leperdoctor wrote:Because it started out as a gag-a-day strip, most the jokes were based on inprobability.
Stop me if I'm wrong, but aren't gag-a-day strips supposed to have a gag a day and be, I dunno,
funny?
leperdoctor wrote:Lots of web comics are based on the artists trying out things that would certainly be cool.
And lots of webcomics suck. Besides, you missed my point. It's nothing to do with the
start or
premise of a story. It's to do with dumb things happening just because it'd be "cool", regardless of plot or narrative. Like if Penny Arcade suddenly had Gabe and Tycho gain supernatural powers and start fighting vampires or aliens or wizards. The mentality behind such a decision would it "wouldn't it be
cool if this happened?!" But it's a nine-year-old's way of thinking, and it just doesn't jibe.
leperdoctor wrote:The lack of sex simply might be because Mookie doesn't want to weird out his audience. Gore and blood are almost expected in mainstream media, but sex? Ack!! Hike the ratings!! Either way, as the plot progresses, Dominic and Luna move closer and closer to actually doing the hanky panky, so if Mookie actually had a fear, it's kinda going away now.
Also possibly because Mookie draws flat, unappealing women with masculine jawlines and
snouts.
leperdoctor wrote:Yeah, most of them have their inner strength...except Sakura. She has intelligence. Without anywhere to use it, except in an exam room where everyone else figures out the same thing as she does. So most the characters in Naruto have something to draw upon, some special feature that makes them cool, and Sakura...is simply there to have a girl on the team. And to be stupid.
Welcome to anime. You'll always need
someone to stand on the sidelines and continually babble on about which secret technique is being used *gasp* HOW CAN THIS BE~~ HIS POWER LEVELS ARE INCREDIBLE~~.
leperdoctor wrote:I think there's a long list of characters in general who have evil family members- Naruto, as you mentioned with Sasuke and his itchy brother, Dragonball Z (Goku's brother, Raditz, is rather evil, and Vegeta is bad, making his son have an evil father), Inu-Yasha (Sesshie is evil), etc. So if Mookie is stealing from someone because of the presence of an evil brother character in his story, than there's a whole lot of other someone's doing some thieving over the evil brother thing.
Evil siblings can be done well. Darken (if I may) does it quite well. There's legitimate reason for the differences in philosophy (or alignment, seeing how it's D&D). Deegan just goes "hey there's these three guys raised in the same household in the same manner for the better part of ten years and whoops suddenly one decides to kill the others DERP DERP".
Jacob isn't portrayed as a psychopath, or a sociopath. At least not very
well, God only knows if that's Mookie's intention. Doubtful, though. In any case, Jacob suffers from animu "pseudo-intellectual rambling villain" syndrome, where he feels he has to wax poetic despite Mookie being a writer who can't make people sound very smart. So he just makes cryptic references to skeletons and crap, I guess.
Seriously, Jacob just decided one day to be just like the person who tried to kill him and his family. That's really messed up, but not explained very well. Or, y'know,
at all.
leperdoctor wrote:You may not like the nose that he draws, but I most certainly am irked by the protruding cheek that Saber Marionette draws!! After five seasons, you'd think they'd learn how to draw a cheek! But. It works. Certain people have certain styles. Those styles may not always look right to you- there's a couple webcomics I started to read where the art was kind of awkward, for me, but it's the artists' choice on how they draw things. If every artist who was ever criticized for a specific part of their art decided to change it, we would have a never-ending change of art styles until...everything looks the same. If everyone has their own little quirks with their drawing skills, like I said before, it makes the world less boring. Besides, I think you focus way on Mookie's nose too much- watch Escaflowne, and you'll appreciate his itty-bitty schnoze!!
Certain people have certain styles, yes. Mookie's "style" is to basically copy his beloved animu and never improve. Look at
any good webcomic, and unless the drawing is
phenomenally good to begin with, there will be marked improvement.
Schlock Mercenary:
First comic,
five years later.
Loserz:
First comic,
five years later.
Combustible Orange:
First comic,
latest comic.
Deegan's still got snoutface, still got a complete lack of interesting camera angles, still got a Goddamn cat
that has the exact same profile as a human being dear christ that is creepy.
leperdoctor wrote:
Oh, and I just remembered- there's a web comic out there that's quite awesome (It's called "Goblins", based on DND), and the way the artist draws his character sis so strange!! They're...lumpy. There's no real straight lines in the characters- that'd be one it took me a while to get used to. But the thing about his characters is that it looks cool after a while.
They're lumpy because they're goblins, funnily enough. And if you compare his
first comic and
most recent comic, you'll see improvement. Improvement in the space of two years. Whereas Deegan has had none in five.
You can talk style all you like, but Mookie is a
terrible artist.
leperdoctor wrote:Everyone gets inspiration from the randomest places, and sometimes you're inspired to use an old theme that's already been done to death, but that doesn't make you a portable photocopier.
I've been inspired by a packet of cereal before, but I know that in order to make myself
not a photocopier, I come up with original stuff. Mookie doesn't and probably never will. That's one of the many reasons I am awesome and he sucks.
leperdoctor wrote:Just like having a damsel in distress has been done so many times. And having a man come to save her. And having magic and talking animals- done to death. Or magic healers. Or revenge plots. Or plots involving murder. Or love, or friendship, or betrayal- done to death! But if Mookie is ripping off everyone around him to make up his plots, then isn't everyone who uses anything similar also doing the same thing? If a random artist were to write about a plot involving an evil big brother, would that be ripping off all the countless people who have already employed that particular mould?
Essentially? Yes. If you boil down every story to its bones, you'll find that what makes it has been done ten thousand times before. That's why the
flesh of the story is so important, because the way those bones move and fit is what makes the story new and exciting.
Mookie's not creating some new form of life here, he's making a modern day Prometheus. A Frankenstein's monster. He's taking stuff he likes, stuff he thinks is neat, and just slapping it together with not a care in the world. He's making an abomination, something with arms and legs all over the place, leaking primordial ichor from squamous and rugose appendages.
Maybe it's more apparent to me and to other writers, the same way his terrible art is more of an affront to decent artists, but Mookie's crap is
crap. It's cliché, unimaginative wholesale cloning of existing media, overlaid with a disappointingly bland setting and populated with shallow characters. The protagonist is a Mary-Sue of the highest level, the entire comic is a showcase of how awesome said protagonist is, and it just
sucks.
Orcs? Where they're not ripped directly from World of Warcraft, what with their "honourable warrior society" routine, they're some horrible amalgam of every B-movie representation of indigenous people ever conceived. Their culture is backwards as all get out, yet shown as being "pure" in that incomprehensible suburban white boy way. It's all leaves and feathers and dances and being in tune with nature, just like every other similar race in every other dire fantasy pap that's been vomited forth since Tolkein popped his clogs.
I know exactly why Mookie's not coming to the UK Webcomix Thing, and that's because the picturesque, Ren Fair daydream of Ye Olde Engelande he has in his head would be shattered the moment he stepped off his flight and got a council house slap square in his gormless face from some 13-year-old, Burberry-clad human rat. His masturbatory visions of knights and wizards would be gone the second after he sees modern day London in all its cancerous glory. He couldn't cope with the fact that even his ideas are all dross and dreck, a complete fantasy among fantasies, nowhere close to approaching the real deal.
Well, that's only since he's stealing from D&D. And steal he does! His little planes of order and chaos might as well just be the exact same planes of order and chaos detailed extensively in whatever overpriced sourcebook they're in. Heaven and hell? Realms of the four classical elements? This is
new and exciting. This is
never before seen. Even changing the elements would have been original, but then that'd require more original thought to cope with this diversion from the long-establish, long-pillaged standards of derivative fantasy. How could Mookie cope with coming up with things one his own? HOW?! He's avoided it so far, with good reason, so by God he isn't going to let it stand in his way now.
When he ain't pilfering from the Wizards of the Coast, he's fellating Japan as much as possible. Who needs an individual artistic style when you can just borrow from Japan? Nevermind that the style he's ripping off is used in cheap, budget animu and designed for ease of animation. Nevermind that since Deegan ain't animated he could stand to have a decent profile. No, heavens no! That's
effort! That's
skill! That's everything that Mookie hasn't got and never will have. To come up with one tiny, miniscule idea that's all his own is so utterly beyond him it
scares him. He can't grow as a writer nor an artist because of it. He's Peter soddin' Pan, the eternal child, unwilling to grow up and become anything more than a weak, spineless sack of crap that can't do anything but parrot back what he sees and what he reads.
Find me one thing -
anything - even approaching original in that quagmire of a webcomic and I'll eat my words. Since it's utterly impossible, I'd advise you not to try.
leperdoctor wrote:Once Mookie puts up his new forum
You had me up until this point. It'll never happen, dude. Mookie can't stand anything but constant praise, and a forum won't give him that.
