Copyright issues...

Gregrose · Post by **Gregrose** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:55 am

just two questions for anyone who could answer.

1- If I made a Webcomic, does it have to be copyrighted, or would it be considered copyrighted when I sign up?

2- if it has to be copyrighted.. where can I get that done?

Thanks a mill!

RemusShepherd · Post by **RemusShepherd** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:11 am

Anything you write or draw is automatically copyrighted. You do not need to register anything for it to be copyrighted. Your creation of it is enough. It's not a bad idea to put a copyright notice on it...I used to, until I decided that they interfered with the art.

There *are* official ways to register your copyright with the government, but that's mostly for corporations who expect to make a lot of money off of a creation. Amateurs can safely ignore the process. If you made it and it's original, it's copyrighted.

Swikan · Post by **Swikan** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:15 am

In the US, it would be difficult, but not impossible to defend your work unless you use the copyright notice on it or near it somewhere (you have to prove that it is your work and that you did it before the infringer). The notice iincludes the word "copyright" or the "c" in the circle symbol, the year, and the name of the owner.

Good luck! I hope to see your comic on Comic Genesis soon!

Gregrose · Post by **Gregrose** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:32 am

Thanks a bunch!

RPin · Post by **RPin** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:50 am

You can put the little copyright notice if you want, but acts more as a reminder than anything. It has the same power on court as no copyright, since all your material is copyrighted to you the moment it is created.

There are, however, ways to get your copyrights registered federally, and that can provide some privileges if you ever have to face a legal battle.

I'd say it's too early to worry about copyright, tho. New artists have a tendency to obssess over it, making them look like asses.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:49 am

The big thing about registering copyright is that you have to register it before you can file suit for infringement and that there are limits to the damages that can be claimed for infringements that happen before registration.

Neither of these is a significant issue for the vast majority of webcomics.

Swikan · Post by **Swikan** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:57 pm

rpin: What you say is true, however don't discount the importance of putting proper copyright notice on your work. If there is full and proper notice on the work, an infringer can't say that he thought the work was in the public domain.

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Copyright notices also serve the useful purpose of making it easier for people to use your work legally, by letting them know who to contact for permission.

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:18 pm

10 big copyright myths explained

- Joel Fagin

Caduceus · Post by **Caduceus** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:16 pm

Copyright is a civil matter and damages are based on the monetary value of your intellectual property (at least in the US.)

So I wouldn't worry about copyright at all until you are actually making money of your creation because there won't actually be any repercussions for the infringer. Until then, you have to rely on the goodness of human nature and just request that people not use your material.

In other words, don't obsess over it.

Biev · Post by **Biev** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:09 pm

If you are really worried about ever having to go to court to prove that you were the creator, the one thing you can do is take some of your originals, mail them to yourself, and don't open the envelope, so you can present it as evidence (the post mark will be dated). They teach us that trick in art school : P

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:15 pm

Biev wrote:If you are really worried about ever having to go to court to prove that you were the creator, the one thing you can do is take some of your originals, mail them to yourself, and don't open the envelope, so you can present it as evidence (the post mark will be dated). They teach us that trick in art school : P

Not necessary. All you need are a few witnesses to the creative process. Friends, family, early readers, whatever. People get hung up on proof in these situations but the word of a few people who were there is more than enough.

- Joel Fagin

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:23 am

Biev wrote:If you are really worried about ever having to go to court to prove that you were the creator, the one thing you can do is take some of your originals, mail them to yourself, and don't open the envelope, so you can present it as evidence (the post mark will be dated). They teach us that trick in art school : P

Actually, although a common myth, that "trick" does not work as proof.

Consider: it is entirely possible for someone to mail themselves an open envelope (the postal service will deliver that just fine--postmark and all), then, at any later date, put something in the envelope and seal it.

In a writing group that I follow, this point was raised by a lawyer.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:34 am

Caduceus wrote:Copyright is a civil matter and damages are based on the monetary value of your intellectual property (at least in the US.)

That's one of the differences between suits against registered vs. unregistered works. Damages for works that were unregistered at time of infringement are limited to what the court determines to be "actual losses" (such as sales one might have had if the "bootleg" copies weren't out there). If the work was registered, there's also the possibility of "punitive" damages that go beyond that.

This is not to say that I recommend webcomic artists all go out and register their copyrights. If nothing else, I don't think you'd find a lawyer willing to take an infringement suit on contingency and you'd probably end up losing more in legal fees than you'd gain in a settlement. Thus, not worth the bother for most people.

Biev · Post by **Biev** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:08 pm

dburkhead wrote: Actually, although a common myth, that "trick" does not work as proof.

Consider: it is entirely possible for someone to mail themselves an open envelope (the postal service will deliver that just fine--postmark and all), then, at any later date, put something in the envelope and seal it.

In a writing group that I follow, this point was raised by a lawyer.

Hm. Jeez, there's ways around everything.

The witness thing is kinda silly because I'm sure both sides would have witnesses saying oh yeah, I've seen him draw this years ago.

Fine, then try to get the local newspaper to write an article about your art
: P

(I bet mine would do it... they have nothing to talk about... ever.)

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:51 pm

Biev wrote:The witness thing is kinda silly because I'm sure both sides would have witnesses saying oh yeah, I've seen him draw this years ago.

Not really. Average people won't just up and lie in court for no reason and no one but the artist actually has a vested interest in doing so. That's why these people who, for example, claim they wrote Harry Potter before Rowling did, usually fail. No witnesses.

Or, to put it another way, what woul it take for you to lie in court for me on a matter you have no stake in, Biev?

You simply wouldn't do it.

- Joel Fagin

Kokiro · Post by **Kokiro** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:52 pm

Would your sign-up date to comicgen work as proof? I mean, if someone stole your comic off the web, could you use comicgen's records to prove that the material was yours first?

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:36 pm

That wouldn't really prove when you drew your artwork or wrote your scripts, but if your username is the title of your comic that would probably help. Really, there's no one thing, short of a federally registered copyright, that'll prove you created something at a certain date but there are lots of little things (like your CGen signup date) that can add up to reasonable proof.

I made a big long list of things last time this subject came up, but the highlights were: witnesses, physical originals of the artwork, hi-res scans of the artwork, and archive.org copies.

Biev · Post by **Biev** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:23 pm

Joel Fagin wrote:Not really. Average people won't just up and lie in court for no reason and no one but the artist actually has a vested interest in doing so. That's why these people who, for example, claim they wrote Harry Potter before Rowling did, usually fail. No witnesses.

Or, to put it another way, what woul it take for you to lie in court for me on a matter you have no stake in, Biev?

You simply wouldn't do it.

- Joel Fagin

Oh, since I married into a family of cops, I hear of plenty of cases where people lie in court, either to get out of more trouble, or to defend their friend / lover / family member / buisness partner... Character witnesses are the worst. And people who start scams usually do it in groups. But, it's nice to know you think that way ;o)

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:56 pm

Biev wrote:Oh, since I married into a family of cops, I hear of plenty of cases where people lie in court, either to get out of more trouble, or to defend their friend / lover / family member / buisness partner...

And they do have a stake in it. The point is to get someone who has no stake - and if it's a copyright issue then no one has a stake in it except the two people arguing over it.

Put it this way: My friends may concievably help me evade the law but they won't help me rob a bank.

- Joel Fagin

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