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This is so great for MY confidence when you get the same amount of readers as I do.

Even if my comic was wildly popular, in its current status and level of quality, I'd still be unhappy with it.

Sometimes you have to keep the story in your mind for a long time and wait until you're technically able to do it. Otherwise, I'd make a "learn how to draw" series on the side. Keeps you sharp and develops your abilities until you're ready to tell the story you REALLY want to do.

I confess that one of the reasons for doing my comic is to gain popularity. I have high aspirations for myself. My ultimate goal in life is to be able to live off of doing my stories and comics. Its all I ever wanted to do with my life since I was small. I realize that I'm going to have to work VERY hard to ever achieve that goal.

That's why my PRIMARY reason for doing my comic is to practice my storytelling and art skills in a comic medium and gaining experience. Also this is a very small way of putting my foot in the door and breaking in. You got to start somewhere, might as well with doing a webcomic. My personal goal with my comic "Niece Web" is to do at least 1000 comics. It won't end until I at least reach that number. By that time, I would have gained a ton of experience and I can look back and say I made a grand achievement.

It helps to know exactly why you're doing a comic, as it puts things in perspective. I get a little discomfort looking at my low double digit visits, but that only pushes me to continue, because I have goals and aspirations I want to achieve.

Edit: I forgot to put that my comic is one of the very few joys in my life, so doing it is like a theuraputic escape from reality for me. I get a rush with every completed comic, makes me feel good inside.

Don't worry, champ. I've been stuck on low double digit figures for pretty much my entire run. I can still count on one hand the number of days I've broken three digits...

There'll be a new post thread the moment I go a week with 100+, trust me!

100, I don't think I've ever broken 100 a day with any comic of mine. But then I'm not one to care terribly much.

Edit: this answer is addressed at the original poster, rather than a generic rant

I think that self-doubt is indipendent from how many hits you're getting. If it's the sound of silence that gets at you when your comic is small, it's the sound of whining that really drags you down when you have more readers.
Example from my tagboard today:
"To be honest, I find the comic rather dissapointing. Sure there are some nice eastern-eggs every now and then, but the drawing style reminds me of my son's, it's updated slowly and .. sigh"
I guess my western eggs didn't impress him
Even if it doesn't really give me attacks of self-doubt, it still makes me feel vaguely depressed and pissed to read whiny posts like these. Also, when I post an episode that I know already to be weak and not particularly funny, I have to brace myself for a lot of negative feedback like that (or ruder).
I think that having less readers is a bit like when you are a kid and you can't wait to grow up, then you grow up and look back and realise how happy and carefree you were as a kid.
I'm not saying that it's not nice to get more readers, just saying that it's not a cure for self-doubt. If you aren't doing the comic because you enjoy it - and if you wouldn't do it unless you have X readers, then there's no amount of attention that is going to make you happy because you'll always want more. Honestly, ask yourself if you'd do the comic even if it had 2-3 readers. If the answer is no, just stop. Nobody says you have to continue in a hobby that isn't really a passion but a way to look for attention. There are lots of other fun ways to spend your free time.

Bekka wrote:Example from my tagboard today:
"To be honest, I find the comic rather dissapointing. Sure there are some nice eastern-eggs every now and then, but the drawing style reminds me of my son's, it's updated slowly and .. sigh"
I guess my western eggs didn't impress him

*snerk*

I guess my western eggs didn't impress him

I like your western eggs just fine.

Bekka wrote: I'm not saying that it's not nice to get more readers, just saying that it's not a cure for self-doubt. If you aren't doing the comic because you enjoy it - and if you wouldn't do it unless you have X readers, then there's no amount of attention that is going to make you happy because you'll always want more. Honestly, ask yourself if you'd do the comic even if it had 2-3 readers. If the answer is no, just stop. Nobody says you have to continue in a hobby that isn't really a passion but a way to look for attention. There are lots of other fun ways to spend your free time.

I completely agree with this.

everyone feels that or most people do. Its natural. however the internet is not the best place to fish for compliments. who cares, if everyone on the net doesn't like your comic? If your doing it for regonition your really doing the wrong hobby. There are tons of great artists, and always gonna be a ton more better than you. its the way of the world. someone is always gonna be better in the global scheme things probably a lot of people.

then you can go about styles, and how every style is not everyones cup of tea. Personally I like to know I'm not the best. I like to know there are people that rock my socks and make my art look like stick figure scribbles. it gives me a reason to continually better myself, and keeping me in check.

Course I'm one of those people who thinks that even if my comic was great and I was a good artist, that it still wouldn't be any more popular than it is now. Mainly cause I don't watch or care who reads my comic. if they do that good and I'm glad they enjoy it. I just don't really monitor any success in doing a comic. I do it cause I like doing it. its a hobby after all and gives me something to do, as apposed to sitting about the house waiting for a friend to call to get into something.

make it fun, or its pointless.

This is just Christwriter's theories, OK? May be wrong.

I think it's harder to be confident about art if you're not very confident about yourself (and I'm not). BECAUSE art comes from the inside. If you don't believe you're good at it (whatever it is) then you won't believe your art is good, and it really doesn't help if you don't get enough positive reenforcement to believe it's good.

I think it's also harder for sensative/hypersensative artists to feel confident. And that's sensative as in "sensative insturments" not sensative as in "you're too sensative". Positive sensativity. Back to the point, sensative artists are more likely to have their confidence undermined by...well, a lot of things. Thoughtless comments, outright meanness...if it's harder for you to let things roll off your back, then it's harder for you to keep the thoughtlessness from hurting your confidence. And if you nearly never get good feedback, you probably won't have any confidence at all.

The best example I can think of is my mother. She's a fantastic artist. She doesn't think so. She grew up with my grandfather, who valued her for her brain (as in, if she brought home a report card with five A's and a B, guess what he saw) She's got this incredible, amazing talent and she's defenately good enough to make a living off of it. But she won't, because she doesn't think she can. About two weeks ago she displayed one of her paintings in our church, as an attention-getter for a writing project a group is doing. Everybody freaked out, and asked 1. Who did that (I couldn't get her to stand next to it or even near it. She wanted to sit on the OTHER SIDE OF THE ROOM and watch the people come over to see it) and 2. When and where can we get prints?

She couldn't believe that people liked it. The ART DIRECTOR of the CHURCH kept walking back to look at it, and she just could not believe that anybody liked it. She had absolutely NO confidence in her talent on its own merits.

Speaking as somebody who has problems with sensativity/confidence/depression, it's hard to have confidence when it's constantly being undermined. Best way I know of is to keep supportive people around you and try to believe them when they tell you that you're good.

CW

phactorri wrote:Course I'm one of those people who thinks that even if my comic was great and I was a good artist, that it still wouldn't be any more popular than it is now. Mainly cause I don't watch or care who reads my comic. if they do that good and I'm glad they enjoy it. I just don't really monitor any success in doing a comic. I do it cause I like doing it. its a hobby after all and gives me something to do, as apposed to sitting about the house waiting for a friend to call to get into something.

make it fun, or its pointless.

See, I don't 100% understand it when people say that. If you're just doing it for a hobby, and you don't care if people read it or not, why didn't you just make comics for fun offline, and stick them in a notebook for only your eyes?

To me, if you put it online, you want others to see it.
But that's just me.

christwriter wrote:I think it's harder to be confident about art if you're not very confident about yourself (and I'm not). BECAUSE art comes from the inside. If you don't believe you're good at it (whatever it is) then you won't believe your art is good, and it really doesn't help if you don't get enough positive reenforcement to believe it's good.

Hmmm. I'll really think about Chris. I can relate to that statement somewhat.

I identify with you, but the advice you are getting here is very good. I am going to talk about my self to illustrate the point:

What I want is to have a wildly popular comic. To have people discussing it on the forums and sending me fan mail. I want to get idea and input from other people to help push the comic forward. I want to be the center of attention and to have every one complement me on my razor wit.

When this doesn’t happen I feel like an idiot. The feeling is the same as when you make a joke at a dinner party and not only does nobody laugh but all conversation stops in embarrassed silence. The silence of the net makes me question my very sanity some times.

Now for the truth of what happens in online comics:

Only 1 in a million comic become popular and the reasons are very ephemeral. To become famous you can’t just do a good job you have to strike a nerve. You have to be the first at something or your art has to be phenomenal or cover a topic in a truly new and unique way.

Your comic can be funny with an engaging story and well drawn and you can advertise it everywhere and still it will not be popular. While a poorly draw poorly written comic about a people with beer bottles attached to their foreheads might be an internet sensation just for being the first comic about people with beer bottle on their foreheads.

The moral of this is; do your comic for fun. If you are not having fun don’t do it or do it in a way that is fun. Fame takes luck or genus and usually both. Get your real world friends to read the comic and have them give you feed back, don’t pin your hopes on the kindness of strangers. To paraphrase “If you want a friend on the internet get a digital dog.”

Now to talk about you for a second; why is your comic not famous? It is the art. The art is not bad. You have a good sense of framing an image and flow of motion. The figures have good proportions and look good. The problem as I see it is the lines. The lines are shaky and not drawn with confidence. And yes this will kill your comic something as trivial as shaky lines. The good news is over time this will change. If you keep doing the comic in a years time your hand will get more practiced and your art will really look really good.

I guess that is my advice to you. Give your comic a year of regular updates with no expectations. After that time I think you are going to find your are going to have a portion of the fame you want.

And y'know, in addition to that, you might want to look at the people who you could consider your popularity contemporaries - anyone who gets in the 50-200 range.

Using page 5 of the Guide RIGHT AT THIS SECOND as a basic idea of who'll be in that range (and yes, I know it's not a very good estimation, but there you go), it looks like you're competing for fame amongst folks like Lab Bratz, Head Doctor Productions, Indefensible Positions, if then else, GothBoy - and of course comics like School Spirit, Reasoned Cognition and my favourites Girl from BOLT and Freedom Fries.

If you feel with certainty that your comic completely pwns all of them, then and only then I reckon you've got a good call to complain about the number of your visits.

prettysenshi2k6 wrote:See, I don't 100% understand it when people say that. If you're just doing it for a hobby, and you don't care if people read it or not, why didn't you just make comics for fun offline, and stick them in a notebook for only your eyes?

To me, if you put it online, you want others to see it.
But that's just me.

On that point, I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why people would put stuff online besides becoming popular, particularly when they obviously aren't noticeable, nor are they trying to become noticed.

It might be for sheer posterity--they are proud of their work, and want to be sure it stays in a safe and accessible place should something unfortunate happen to the originals. It could be destined for an online portfolio (again, accessibility) for when the possibility of making their passion into a career arises (not quite the same as popularity, because they'd be demonstrating their progression of skill rather than pitching a self-contained body of work). In general, the 'Net is the wave of the future--why not become tech-savvy while planning for one's own future?

Well, I guess that's two and a half, maybe three reasons; just my own speculations. Why save your drawings in a notebook if you don't have the faintest hope of retaining and using those skills in some greater capacity some day? The internet is just another big notebook... and like a diary, chances of people seeing/caring/offering critiques are very slim unless you let them know about it. Even then, you can still tell people you don't really care--that's the beauty of anonymity. You can decide later whether your projects will be important to you.

As to the rest of your concerns... what they said. ...yeah.

Ooh...mine was mentioned in the same paragraph as a 'contemporary popularity' discussion...wow.

Does that mean I'm inside the top 200? Nah...couldn't be.

Why do you feel bad about your work? Because YOU SHOULD. I know it sounds cruel, but I'll elaborate. You see, the thing is that if you didn't feel bad about your work, you wouldn't work to improve. The day you think that your comic is perfect is the day it will stagnate and die.

As for the rest, let me just say the chances that your comic is going to skyrocket into penny-arcade-like fame are tiny. So why bother? If you're "the artist", I'm hoping you're like me and you draw not for the hopes that one day you'll make a living off it, even though I still hold that hope somewhere, but that you draw because you fucking love it! As long as you love drawing, keep doing it. Don't stop because there are people better than you out there. Or I would have quit long LONG ago.


*edit*

And why bother posting it on the net? You say you want people to read it and like it with you. Perfect! Where better to do this than the internet? You have a group of friends within which you are "the artist". I know, because it's the same for me. However, I come online, and I see that, in all honestly, it's CRAP. So why bother contributing? Because someone out there is going to love it! No matter what, you're broadcasting to the whole world! SOMEONE is going to think it rocks to high heaven.

prettysenshi2k6 wrote:See, I don't 100% understand it when people say that. If you're just doing it for a hobby, and you don't care if people read it or not, why didn't you just make comics for fun offline, and stick them in a notebook for only your eyes?

well the same reason we scan sketches in and post them on blogs. cause we want others to get enjoyment out of them, and maybe a little histronia. Its here if people do want to read it. But one should not go in thinking people will want to.

plus I suck at markers.

? Where is this page, Blackaby? Can't find it. I think GothBoy's doing pretty well though, considering it's been dead for over two years...

I'm not afraid to admit I thrive on reader reactions and traffic. Does that mean I'm doing it for attention? Well, maybe, but I'm sure if it's attention I wanted I could be going about it a lot more efficiently.

It is true that however much you're getting you'll want more, though, so it should not be the only reason. My traffic has long been absolutely p-ss-poor, it's picking up a little since I improved my website and I'm doing a little more on publicising it. It's still nothing to get exited about though. I have an updating schedule of "every couple of months" and I'm sure that's part of the reason, but that can't be helped right now.

If you don't think your comic has the readership it deserves (and keep in mind what Blackaby said above) then maybe you just have to get out there and push it more.

gothboy wrote:? Where is this page, Blackaby? Can't find it. I think GothBoy's doing pretty well though, considering it's been dead for over two years...

It's http://guide.comicgenesis.com - but it's really not always reliable. I've found page 5 is around 200-100 visits a day, although it's dependent (as far as I know) on the time of day and such things. Page one I think is 1500+ visits?