Keenspace, Sherpa, Drunk Duck vs. independent website

[Yeahduff]

toon 2 Audio pronunciation of "toon" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tn)
n. Informal

1. A cartoon, especially an animated cartoon.
2. A character in an animated cartoon.

Yes, but in #1 it says a cartoon, especially an animated cartoon.

But it doesn't say ONLY an animated cartoon, so it's any cartoon, and as per the definition of cartoon, it fits.

And let us not forget the political cartoon.

[Leko]

Yes, but in #1 it says a cartoon, especially an animated cartoon.

But it doesn't say ONLY an animated cartoon, so it's any cartoon, and as per the definition of cartoon, it fits.

And let us not forget the political cartoon.

...

Who cares?

[Sam_Charette]

...

Who cares?

A group of people which apparently doesn't include you?

[Arvo]

However, if you're tight on cash, then I'd say try keenspace. It's reliable, free, you can give your readers an easy url to remember, and if you REALLY want to get syndicated, you could always submit your work the old fashioned way- via snail mail. There aren't really too many cons I can think of when it comes to going w/ keenspace- except for maybe the ad that you're required to have on your page... but that's not really a big deal.

Or you could also mix it up- use sherpa or your keenspace/drunk duck site as mirrors.

Jen, thanks for this advice. I wonder why can't you just ask syndicates to check out your work on Keenspace instead of bothering with Snail Mail? Are they reluctant to go to a Keenspace URL? Well, if you have your own domain then they can go to your URL and not realize it's Keenspace until the page loads.

Snail mail is a hassle.

Well, as I have no idea how people will react to my work, I think I will probably go with Keenspace at first. I do wonder, though...it's so easy to click on a link or type a URL...why shouldn't editors check you out on Keenspace as often as Sherpa?

[Arvo]

Since I've never had a website or a URL before, and am a diagnosed and registered paranoid, I now feel I have to do a bit of research before choosing which Domain registrar to use.

When you go to a domain registrar, I understand that you enter your domain in a search box to see if it's available. If you've got a good domain name that nobody has, is it possible that unscrupulous Domain Registrar Entrepreneurs who monitor the searches will grab your domain name, register it before you do, and try to sell it back to you for $10,000?

Also, are some domain registrars going to try to charge me every time I want to change something...like the webhost...or if I want to renew with a different registrar. Do they have all kinds of hidden charges like this that they don't tell you about upfront?

Can anyone recommend an honest, cheap registrar?

[Jen_Babcock]

Jen, thanks for this advice. I wonder why can't you just ask syndicates to check out your work on Keenspace instead of bothering with Snail Mail? Are they reluctant to go to a Keenspace URL? Well, if you have your own domain then they can go to your URL and not realize it's Keenspace until the page loads.

Snail mail is a hassle.

Well, as I have no idea how people will react to my work, I think I will probably go with Keenspace at first. I do wonder, though...it's so easy to click on a link or type a URL...why shouldn't editors check you out on Keenspace as often as Sherpa?

If you do that, they'll just throw your e-mail/letter out... and it's not b/c you have a keenspace/drunk duck site- they'd do it even if it was an independent website. Part of the reason for doing this is 1) they get thousands upon thousands of submissions a year, and having hard copies of the comics is crucial because 2) they like to circulate the comic around the office to other editors.

Editors sometimes check out the stuff on sherpa b/c there is a limited amount of toons there (less cartoons than on keenspace), and amongst those comics, there's only maybe like 4-8 that might be marketable for them. They'd have to search too hard to look through keenspace, and would probably only look at a keenspace comic if they stumbled across it or if they heard it word of mouth.

It is my understanding though that editors sometimes go to college newspapers and look for new talent (since the cartoonists in college papers usually live up to some sort of publishable standard).

If you're really interested in syndication, just send a package of some samples of your work. They won't bother going to a website.

[Arvo]

Thanks Jen,

Well, I don't know if I'm really interested in syndication yet. I want to see how people react to my strip first. And also, I have an ulterior motive: there's a woman involved, who is the model for the lead character. I hope the strip is going to make her fall in love with me!

Either that or it will make her murder me.

Of course, I also really enjoy drawing it and would love to somehow make some money from it.

[McDuffies]

Many just learn to play guitar for that.

[Steverules]

I wonder why can't you just ask syndicates to check out your work on Keenspace instead of bothering with Snail Mail? Are they reluctant to go to a Keenspace URL? Well, if you have your own domain then they can go to your URL and not realize it's Keenspace until the page loads.

Syndicates receive thousands of submissions a year. They don't have to check the web or hunt for comic artists, as the artists actively hunt them. Sherpa is owned and hosted by a syndicate so it would make sense the editors occassionally drop in and see what is being produced.
Keenspace has thousands of strips. Non Keenspace has thousands of strips. Editors would go nuts trying to wade through all of that. If your stuff is good enough you should go snail mail and see what happens.
The internet is a great place to get your feet wet, get some good honest feedback and tool around with your strip.
Don't let the keenspace url fool you. If your stuff is good and people like it they'll come back. The negative perception is mostly within the webcomic community.

[AsterAzul]

Thanks Jen,

Well, I don't know if I'm really interested in syndication yet. I want to see how people react to my strip first. And also, I have an ulterior motive: there's a woman involved, who is the model for the lead character. I hope the strip is going to make her fall in love with me!

Either that or it will make her murder me.

Of course, I also really enjoy drawing it and would love to somehow make some money from it.

Hmmm... that sounds like double-trouble...
maybe you should just learn the guitar!! You know, if you learn some James Taylor songs you'll be irrestible.

[Leko]

The only people who would pass up your comic just because of the url it's hosted at are people you don't want reading your comic anyway. Seriously, who chooses comics based on where they're hosted? That's like the most useless criterion ever. Don't worry about it.

Besides, if you work it out with Kisai, you can get the .keenspace removed from your url and set up your own domain on keenspace's servers without going to another domain regist...trar? whatever. It still costs money, but there's no extra host involved. I'm not sure how exactly that works, though. Anyway, what I'm basically saying is, if you have your own outside domain or you've set one up with Kisai, you can set it so that that's what the browser automatically displays.

Personally I don't really think the .keenspace is that big of a deal--I'm proud to be a Spacer, because I know that there are some damn good strips here, and I know there are thousands of people on the internet who know it too.

[Gengar003]

Back on the "lack-of-html-skills" note, Keenspace forums has a thread designed for people like you:

The web designer yellow-pages

[Arvo]

Thanks Jen,

Well, I don't know if I'm really interested in syndication yet. I want to see how people react to my strip first. And also, I have an ulterior motive: there's a woman involved, who is the model for the lead character. I hope the strip is going to make her fall in love with me!

Either that or it will make her murder me.

Of course, I also really enjoy drawing it and would love to somehow make some money from it.

Hmmm... that sounds like double-trouble...
maybe you should just learn the guitar!! You know, if you learn some James Taylor songs you'll be irrestible.

Too true! In fact, she married a guitar player. This strip I hope will be the stimulus for their breakup and her reunion with me!

[Kisai]

There has been one instance of content problem with a Keenspace comic that I can remember. Ghastly ran a comic which caused someone to complain to the people who provide the ads for Keenspace and the ads were pulled from his site. Not being able to run the ads would have gotten him kicked off Keenspace, but he worked out a deal with the powers that be and sells his own adspace to other comics to pay for the cost of his hosting.

Keenspace itself will not pull a comic for content unless the comic is breaking copyright laws and a cease and desist has been received. This is mostly in the case of sprite comics and, as far as I know, hasn't actually happened.

Templates are available under the Cadet's section of Gear.

Disney/Jim-Henson (muppets) is really quick to pull the legal guns out, so I suggest not parody/satire them, only because they are very unfriendly.

The only reason Keenspace would remove a site:
1. Stale - if only one comic was uploaded and then the site never updated past that point. It would be removed by an automated system (which is currently off, and has been off since march)
2. Copyright/Legal issue - This more concerns trademark infringement, warez/romz , and blatently obvious copyright infringement. I will not reactively remove a site unless it gets flagged for one of these issues.
3. Hotlink/dumpsite - Where there is an ulterior motive for the site.

Some of the rules regarding flash may change. The rule right now is that a flash file must be under 3MB or it trips various monitors, because it's highly unlikely that someone could upload a flash cartoon every day, it averages out to about the same bandwidth as a comic updating every day given the same amount of readers. I think what may be required for flash sites is some quality assessment. It's really easy for someone to incorperate 25 full lenght mp3's and only use 20 seconds of each and thereby upload a 80MB flash cartoon.

The general rule for copyright infringement:
1. If it's not obvious (lack of copyright statement in the image) that something has been borrowed, don't do it.

Final Fantasy/MegaMan/Mario/Sonic and whatnot are obvious to people who play the games, but not to people who aren't gamers. This is why sprite comics should really be avoided.

2. For parody/satire reasons, you must only use copyrighted material once or rarely. Otherwise it has to be so far removed from the source that it's not identifyable. The only examples I can think of is Ghastly's "Freddy" character and occasional references to Piro of MegaTokyo in his comic. Unless you were fans of pokemon or megatokyo, it's not immediately obvious.

3. Fanfiction/fancomic/doushinji - Keep in mind that one should seek permission before ever doing a fan work, however people tend to not ask permission. Each author has their own idea what is acceptable. The basic idea is that you shouldn't take characters you don't own and put them in your own comic unless given permission, this includes cross-overs and cameos. When in doubt, ask. It's been stated in one news item on webcomics that one artist likes fanart/fiction as long as it doesn't take the characters out of character.

And the golden rule:
Just because someone else does it, doesn't mean you should.


As always, attitudes, rules and stuff are subject to change. Americans are probably more at risk for legal trouble than any other country due to the high amounts of friviolous lawsuits filed every year. Every other country out there has much more lax attitudes towards copyright infringement, acting on are reactive instead of proactive schedule. RIAA, MPAA, BSA , these companies are not your friends, they are mostly FUD generators. The games industry makes more money than the film and recording industry last time I checked. Webcomics are a tiny drop of a much larger comic industry. If you are getting into webcomics because you want to make money, rethink that. People who get into it to make money wind up unhappy, much like anyone else who picks a job only on the basis of what they would be paid.

[War]

The games industry making more money than the film and recording industries wasn't exactly true. Video games exceeded box office revenue is true, but the movie industry gets money from many other areas such as DVD releases, product placement, merchandise tie ins.

[The Neko]

Films make most of their revenue in ancillary markets. Video games are, themselves, just one piece of an ancillary market, so they don't have many other opportunities to make money outside of the actual purchase of the game.

[McDuffies]

The games industry making more money than the film and recording industries wasn't exactly true. Video games exceeded box office revenue is true, but the movie industry gets money from many other areas such as DVD releases, product placement, merchandise tie ins.

Video releases. A whole lot of good directors used to make profit only with video releases. After the boom of Dvd, I suppose things are tilted, since cinemas don't earn as much as they did before.