Comic Genesis Forums

Everyone knows, it's about two things: skill and Spirit. Skill can be taught and learned. Spirit can't be learned, nor is it something you're born with. It's just something that you have to discover about yourself in your own individual way.

The Neko wrote:Really, it all boils down to the theory of multiple intelligences.

I hate that theory, and I hate Daniel Goleman. The only reasonable thing he discovered was how useless IQ tests are in determining one's sucess.

I don't think you can put talents and intelligence into a closed table like he does. Every person is a different individual with real potential for great things, and if most of us stay in mediocrity is because we are conditioned by the circunstances we live in.

Sure, some people learn faster than others. But is this time span you guys call talent? Isn't talent just the mere fact that you're able to do something, and do it well?

I too am taken aback whenever I meet 15 year old kids that kick my ass at drawing. But it's just that, time.

We all have this hurry, because we seem to be under the impression that at some point our lives are going to stagnate and we're not going to be able to learn anything anymore. Personally, I look up to being an Al Schroeder, who just hit 51 and is creating a webcomic and improving from it, working voluntarily at Comixpedia and just generally kicking ass. I hope I never stop what I'm doing, and I hope to never stop learning.

Personally, I feel sorry for those gifted kids their parents send to get college degrees too early. Inteligence is not just about your ability to memorize stuff. More importantly is what you do with that kind of knowledge, and that those kids will only learn as they get older and more mature. Skipping steps and rushing things is not the way to go turn those kids into healthy citizens.

I speak from experience. I learned to read very early (at the age of 3) and after having to go through an IQ test, the teachers pleaded for my parents to send me to a gifted kids school. I'm glad my parents were against it, tho. I didn't want to turn into a calculator.

phactorri wrote:not enough time? Well to me art is fun. I draw to have fun. I don't draw everyday, or sketch everyday. but when I'm looking for somthing to make me smile or have a good time sometimes I go "well I wanna practice drawing" cause to me it sounds like a good time.

If you complain there isnt enough time "and practicing" is so boring... then perhaps you should look elsewhere cause if you don't enjoy it-- I see no reason to draw.

Yes, not enough time. There are other obligations in life besides drawing. Some of these include relationships, school, jobs, other hobbies,etc... Not all of them we like but we still have to do them. I also fail to see when I said or even implied that I think practicing drawing is boring. I love drawing. The fact is we have limited time in life, and if you think someone will just sacrifice everything for drawing just because it's fun, you've got another thing coming. Someone with a slow learning curve will not be able to reach the level of say, War, within 2.5 years. Some people won't even be able to reach his level before they are stopped, be it from disease or just plain death.

RPin wrote:

The Neko wrote:Really, it all boils down to the theory of multiple intelligences.

I hate that theory, and I hate Daniel Goleman. The only reasonable thing he discovered was how useless IQ tests are in determining one's sucess.

I don't think you can put talents and intelligence into a closed table like he does. Every person is a different individual with real potential for great things, and if most of us stay in mediocrity is because we are conditioned by the circunstances we live in.

Sure, some people learn faster than others. But is this time span you guys call talent? Isn't talent just the mere fact that you're able to do something, and do it well?

I too am taken aback whenever I meet 15 year old kids that kick my ass at drawing. But it's just that, time.

We all have this hurry, because we seem to be under the impression that at some point our lives are going to stagnate and we're not going to be able to learn anything anymore. Personally, I look up to being an Al Schroeder, who just hit 51 and is creating a webcomic and improving from it, working voluntarily at Comixpedia and just generally kicking ass. I hope I never stop what I'm doing, and I hope to never stop.

Personally, I feel sorry for those gifted kids their parents send to get college degrees too early. Inteligence is not just about your ability to memorize stuff. More importantly is what you do with that kind of knowledge, and that those kids will only learn as they get older and more mature. Skipping steps and rushing things is not the way to go turn those kids into healthy citizens.

I speak from experience. I learned to read very early (at the age of 3) and after having to go through an IQ test, the teachers pleaded for my parents to send me to a gifted kids school. I'm glad my parents were against it, tho. I didn't want to turn into a calculator.

That makes sense.
I never said, however, that intelligence and success are related. Never underestimate the influence of personality. Tons of people have aptitude for things that are never discovered for pursued.

Genetics can account for aptitude, but not skill or talent. That is left up to the individual.

ouch. My head is spinning now.

Isn't aptitude the same thing as talent???

Phalanx wrote:ouch. My head is spinning now.

Isn't aptitude the same thing as talent???

I have that effect on people.

Phalanx wrote:ouch. My head is spinning now.

Isn't aptitude the same thing as talent???

I think that talent is a skillful display of abilities learned. Aptitude is a measure of potentiality and learning ability.

Answer me this.... What is "good art" and why is it so important?

If you drew a picture and really expressed your thought and hard work, hell, you have succeeded. Screw the art critics. Our talents are our self expression. Improvement occurs, yes, but only we can satisfy those needs internally and (Sorry for sounding cheesy) improve our soul.

When in doubt, refer:

Meaning of aptitude:

Dictonary.com:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aptitude

ap

Mmmmm..... It's cool you can say that, but how many times were you confronted with something that you didn't like and you responded by saying, "That is valid and displays hard work and hence I shall not judge it?" Probably not often. Everyone's a critic. And good art is not just one thing. Everyone's got their own ideas about it, and that's part of the fun.

edit- damn you Phalanx, posting before I could finish my post, because obviously you knew this would happen and you wanted me to look silly because you're a malicious, evil person.

Um, yeah, the above post is in response to Kris X.

Damonk (my husband, for those who don't know) and I argue about this kind of stuff all the time. Yes, most of our arguments are likely to be meta. Anyway, he's got this "pepsi bottle" theory of people, where everyone has the same size pepsi bottle and can poor their pepsi into whatever cup they like. Meaning that everyone has the same potential, they spend it in different ways. Regardless of his bad taste in soda, I disagree strongly, because I feel some people, to continue the metaphor, have bigger bottles to start and different size cups to poor into.

Just by accident, or natural talent, someone can be better at making lines communicate to other people through art. Some people just have a natural ability to do it. I'm not entirely too good at drawing, but even Damonk notices I instinctively do certain things correctly. But because of lack of lessons, I used to have a lot of trouble doing things like perspective, which comes naturally to him, though differently that I instinctively do great work at say, building a horse body in space.

People are different. People are WEIRD. And they never fail to do the unexpected.

I also never discount the power of will. If you REALLY want to do something, you will. You may have to work harder at it than someone else, but sometimes that can be to your advantage. How many amazingly talented artists get bored and stop drawing? While those who struggle find themselves creating art for life?

-Meaghan

wp wrote:

phactorri wrote:not enough time? Well to me art is fun. I draw to have fun. I don't draw everyday, or sketch everyday. but when I'm looking for somthing to make me smile or have a good time sometimes I go "well I wanna practice drawing" cause to me it sounds like a good time.

If you complain there isnt enough time "and practicing" is so boring... then perhaps you should look elsewhere cause if you don't enjoy it-- I see no reason to draw.

Yes, not enough time. There are other obligations in life besides drawing. Some of these include relationships, school, jobs, other hobbies,etc... Not all of them we like but we still have to do them. I also fail to see when I said or even implied that I think practicing drawing is boring. I love drawing. The fact is we have limited time in life, and if you think someone will just sacrifice everything for drawing just because it's fun, you've got another thing coming. Someone with a slow learning curve will not be able to reach the level of say, War, within 2.5 years. Some people won't even be able to reach his level before they are stopped, be it from disease or just plain death.

then I fail to see your point. its true some people have an aptitude to learn things faster. But excuse me if I sould a little buddhist here but I am under the concept that the path is much more entertaining than the summit.

your comments about not having the time seem that you have to force yourself to draw. I am not exactly someone who has all the time in the world, and others here are in the same boat. personally I have friends, a band, a girlfriend, and though I'm not technically employeed right now I do temp work many days a week. That doesn't include the fact that I'm involved in animal rights, community volunteer work... and I try to squeeze in time to hang out with my friends, and support local music in my area by setting up shows and attending them.

most people here have busy lives, but gotta have fun sometimes?

phactorri wrote: then I fail to see your point. its true some people have an aptitude to learn things faster. But excuse me if I sould a little buddhist here but I am under the concept that the path is much more entertaining than the summit.

your comments about not having the time seem that you have to force yourself to draw. I am not exactly someone who has all the time in the world, and others here are in the same boat. personally I have friends, a band, a girlfriend, and though I'm not technically employeed right now I do temp work many days a week. That doesn't include the fact that I'm involved in animal rights, community volunteer work... and I try to squeeze in time to hang out with my friends, and support local music in my area by setting up shows and attending them.

most people here have busy lives, but gotta have fun sometimes?

My point is that good artists are born as partially good artists even if they have to practice to get there. Some people have more talent and in general will be better artists than people without talent, mainly because they don't have to spend as much time to become good. I never once said anything about the journey and destination, and I don't even think I even implied that I forced myself to draw. That's like saying you force yourself to hang out with your friends when you have spare time. I have lots of other things to do, and when I can draw, I draw; but I don't always have time to draw.

NotoriousMEQ wrote:Damonk (my husband, for those who don't know) and I argue about this kind of stuff all the time. Yes, most of our arguments are likely to be meta. Anyway, he's got this "pepsi bottle" theory of people, where everyone has the same size pepsi bottle and can poor their pepsi into whatever cup they like. Meaning that everyone has the same potential, they spend it in different ways. Regardless of his bad taste in soda, I disagree strongly, because I feel some people, to continue the metaphor, have bigger bottles to start and different size cups to poor into.

Just by accident, or natural talent, someone can be better at making lines communicate to other people through art. Some people just have a natural ability to do it. I'm not entirely too good at drawing, but even Damonk notices I instinctively do certain things correctly. But because of lack of lessons, I used to have a lot of trouble doing things like perspective, which comes naturally to him, though differently that I instinctively do great work at say, building a horse body in space.

People are different. People are WEIRD. And they never fail to do the unexpected.

I also never discount the power of will. If you REALLY want to do something, you will. You may have to work harder at it than someone else, but sometimes that can be to your advantage. How many amazingly talented artists get bored and stop drawing? While those who struggle find themselves creating art for life?

-Meaghan

Your idea of the pepsi principle is very much like "g", the concept of general intelligence. Some have more of it, and others have less. I also like the idea of smaller and bigger glasses to pour into.

People told me it's impossible to draw divine without the natural gift,
so ofcourse I had to prove them otherwise.
And I have all the time in the world to prove them wrong + I'm stubborn enough to keep at it.

Beyonder_alpha wrote:People told me it's impossible to draw divine without the natural gift

Feh!

I draw Jesus all the time.

Ghastly: twisting the "Jesus Loves You" idiom, one comic at a time.

--Sij

wp wrote:It takes practice to become a good artist, but some people will never be that good. And it doesn't do aspiring artists any good to show drawings that were supposed to be poor but still are better than anything that said artists have come up with.

wp wrote:I'm sorry, but I think it's rash to assume that people who complain just aren't trying hard enough.

wp wrote:Yes, not enough time. There are other obligations in life besides drawing. Some of these include relationships, school, jobs, other hobbies,etc... Not all of them we like but we still have to do them.

It's elitist to say that everyone can do something with enough practice? Good lord, how harsh it must be to hear that with a little work, you could be a great artist! I'm sure you'd rather hear "Lordy, you suck. Give up, kid. You're not worth a damn and never will be

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If I can't draw well because I wasn't born with natural drawing ability, then I understand why I can't draw. If everyone can do it with practice, than why the hell can't I?

Bob wrote:*picture of lion mauling some person*

No, see, that's still better than my drawings.

PeppermintAfterLife wrote:*drawings of Evan from 2000*

", ", " " " " " "

Every professional artist I've ever heard of anyone asking has said you can learn to draw if you just keep drawing.

That's what I'm saying, the people who say that are the ones who are really good, and they think it's true because they don't realize they have natural artistic talent that brought them to where they are.

It's not that. It's the writing themselves off even before they begin and blaming it on no talent.

I've been trying to draw since sixth grade and I basically have not improved at all. No, I don't think I have any of those drawings, but I'll look.

Next, notice the definitions Phalanx posted mention "natural endowments" and "inherent abilities".

And finally... Phalanx, that Sector thing does indeed take the cake . How long did it take you to get to a level where you could draw decently?(now, think decent from my perspective, not from yours).

Edit: Had the wrong grade above, fixed that.

And reading a bit further, I agree about the part that humans can do whatever they want if they wish it enough.

They told me I couldn't handle latin, so I took latin and worked harder then the rest. *holds up partial latin degree year 1-4*

They told me i would be insane if I went from a direction? that had no hours of math to one that had 10 hours of math, so I went and worked harder. And succeeded. *holds up math/computer degree year 5-6*

The list goes on a lot :p
Basicly whenever people tell me I can't or shouldn't, I do, and thus far always have succeeded. This is also accounting for the fact that I may just be good at learning stuff.


These were random things, so to be able to have natural talents for 1.. maybe 10 was possible, but I disproved this theorie over a hundred times in my life and I intend to disprove it even further.

Not that anyone cares, but I think the ability to draw is more about the ability to see. Artists see things better. Drawing ability can be learned. Anyone can eventually learn to ape something enough that they can be considered good. Until they try to do something outside of what they've been copying. That's where inborn talent kicks in. I think some people are more apt to learn how to see, but (for instance) I'll never see like Michelangelo. Its just not in me.

So, you can learn to be a good artist, but greatness is more an in-born thing.

Not inbred. that's different.