Do you have to be born a good artist?

Collapse · Post by **Collapse** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:06 pm

Not inbred. that's different.

...

TheSuburbanLetdown · Post by **TheSuburbanLetdown** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:21 pm

collapse wrote:
PeppermintAfterLife wrote:*drawings of Evan from 2000*
", ", " " " " " "

I know my old stuff sucked, but what exactly does this mean?

Phact0rri · Post by **Phact0rri** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:29 pm

wp wrote:My point is that good artists are born as partially good artists even if they have to practice to get there. Some people have more talent and in general will be better artists than people without talent, mainly because they don't have to spend as much time to become good. I never once said anything about the journey and destination, and I don't even think I even implied that I forced myself to draw. That's like saying you force yourself to hang out with your friends when you have spare time. I have lots of other things to do, and when I can draw, I draw; but I don't always have time to draw.

Well that is what the conversation has gone too, but I relate that in my own point of view. there is absolutely no knowledge or skill that is DNA specific. There are theories relating to this aspect as has been mowed over in this thread thus far. But I belive that DNA is specifically physical relationships. there of course are physical betters involved. For example I'm extremly hyperactive, and in fact it causes my hands to shake, I also have a chemical imbalance that makes mind work faster than it normally should. But i pretty much think that in route everyone is born with a blank slate. your habitat and enviroment dictate what you learn and how you precieve things. If by in-born you mean "early in life", perhaps. people who learn spacial relations earlier one, people who get hand eye cordination earlier on; have a better aptitude, for it than others.

Though it goes back to what theory you put stakes in. but at the end of the day, in my world saying "he's got natural talent.. or she was born to draw and I will never be as good as she is" is just an excuse.

I was always taught, if you want to do something do it to your best ability. No matter how good or bad you are it.. your dedication will show. I for one will admit, that I am not as good as Ping or War, cause I didn't start drawing originally until I was sixteen. That was about nine years ago. And subtracting four years or so from that when I quit.. and well I don't have that much time invested. Most people here have been drawing a very long time. much longer than me I know.

I'm not trying to discredit your opinion or saying its false, people could be born with some sort of mental stigma that makes them better at drawing. But hell what can you do about it? draw when ya have time and do it cause ya like to do it.

That is really all I'm saying. Don't worry so much about the chances you have at getting as good or better than anyone else. As you pointed out.. Life's to short to worry about being better than someone. Do things to the best of your ability while your alive.

"Time is only what you make it, Cheerish your love and cheerish your life."

Luprand · Post by **Luprand** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:30 pm

PeppermintAfterlife wrote:
collapse wrote:
PeppermintAfterLife wrote:*drawings of Evan from 2000*
", ", " " " " " "
I know my old stuff sucked, but what exactly does this mean?

He wants to say what he said to the previous person word-for-word, but doesn't feel like typing it all out again. Hence all the ditto-marks.

--Sij

Bustertheclown · Post by **Bustertheclown** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:35 pm

collapse wrote:
Not inbred. that's different.
...

I type faster than I think sometimes.

EDIT:

I also read slower than I respond sometimes. I was sure I'd said inbred. Maybe I did. My head hurts. I should dig up some old drawings of mine! They're in the garage!

Collapse · Post by **Collapse** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:36 pm

What Lupe said, Peppermint.

Nyke · Post by **Nyke** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:44 pm

collapse wrote:What Lupe said, Peppermint.

I think I have to check my vision again. I just thought I read something else:

collapse wrote:What Lube said, Peppermint.

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:54 pm

collapse wrote:If everyone can do it with practice, than why the hell can't I?

It has become increasingly, exceedingly, and blatantly obvious that you can't because of your attitude. You're obviously going to fail if you continue thinking that you're going to . . . you have set your own limit with your own self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you really want to hear that the problem is that there's something wrong with you personally, then there it is. Now get over it.

That's what I'm saying, the people who say that are the ones who are really good, and they think it's true because they don't realize they have natural artistic talent that brought them to where they are.

No, they know it's true because they've actually done all the practice and hard work necessary to get where they are. I gradually improved drawing over the years, and was fairly (and I'm being overly optimistic here) decent thanks to the small bit of talent that I inherited from my mother. However, I've improved more over the past year than I had in the ten years prior because I've spent this last bit of time actually applying myself to learning and practicing and enhancing my skill. The only thing the talent helped was how fast that progress was, not whether there was going to be any progress at all.

Collapse · Post by **Collapse** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:57 pm

I've only adopted this attitude recently. I used to draw just because I wanted to get better, and not care about how good or bad I actually was. When I didn't improve after six years I sort of gave up.

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:58 pm

You've only now adopted this attitude conciously.

Collapse · Post by **Collapse** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:00 pm

I didn't care before. But, if looked at your way, that would mean I fundamentally don't have faith in my own artistic abilites, which precludes me from ever becoming a good artist, which means that I naturally cannot draw well.

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:01 pm

You can't change a genetic flaw. You can change your attitude. This does not preclude your ability to enhance your skill . . . it's merely a roadblock that you need to move.

Noise Monkey · Post by **Noise Monkey** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:08 pm

Take Chaos Cricket, for instance. When we first met, all his characters looked the same, they lived in white negative space and they had two positions...looking left and looking right. They boy (who believes he can't draw) may not have a lot of skill in photorealistic drawing, but as an artist he's come a long way (he doesn't do much background still...neither do I...which is laziness on my part) and when he does a BG...it actually looks really good. And its 'cause he refuses to give up. Even though he thinks he can't draw.

Collapse · Post by **Collapse** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:09 pm

But that doesn't address the point that I used to think I could improve, and I didn't care that I was bad, and I never did improve.

TheSuburbanLetdown · Post by **TheSuburbanLetdown** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:09 pm

collapse wrote:What Lupe said, Peppermint.

oh, okay.
You honestly think my drawings from 2000 are better than yours? I think most people here would agree that your drawings are much better than the ones I did.
Honestly, I don't think those drawings you posted are all that bad. Do you use reference pictures when you draw? Those tend to help a lot. And that wooden model van douchebag posted is indispensible as well; I have one myself.

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:13 pm

collapse wrote:But that doesn't address the point that I used to think I could improve, and I didn't care that I was bad, and I never did improve.

<tired of the conversation>
Boo hoo. The only time you really fail is when you stop trying. Good luck with your photoshop filters, failure.
</tired of the conversation>

Collapse · Post by **Collapse** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:21 pm

Thanks, Jim.

You honestly think my drawings from 2000 are better than yours?

Definitely.

I think most people here would agree that your drawings are much better than the ones I did.

That would surprise me greatly.

Honestly, I don't think those drawings you posted are all that bad. Do you use reference pictures when you draw? Those tend to help a lot. And that wooden model van douchebag posted is indispensible as well; I have one myself.

No, if I use a reference picture, it turns out worse. I do not understand why this is. I think I have trouble getting the relative sizes of things.

TheSuburbanLetdown · Post by **TheSuburbanLetdown** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:39 pm

collapse wrote: No, if I use a reference picture, it turns out worse. I do not understand why this is. I think I have trouble getting the relative sizes of things.

Definitley look into getting a wooden model. And it helps to draw skeletely(sp?) at first, just to get the gesture right. Just think stick figure, in a way. Once that's down, you can fill in details. And get head placement first. I dont' know if any of this is helpful, but I just though I'd try.

Collapse · Post by **Collapse** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:44 pm

I want to try an experiment. I've never tried anything like this before, and I've never heard of it being tried.

WIth your eyes closed, try to draw this shape:

Obviously my drawing here is sort of crappy (it's supposed to be smooth and symmetrical), but you get the idea. Using any medium (computer, paper/pencil, whatever) just try to make that shape with your eyes closed.

Please humor me with this, I want to see something.

Btw, this is directed at everyone.

Wp · Post by Wp » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:00 pm

phactorri wrote:Well that is what the conversation has gone too, but I relate that in my own point of view.

I agree with most things you say. I draw for fun. I love seeing the improvement. It's like a video game. I'm never as satisfied with the ending as I am with the actual game (especially rpgs). But my only point has been that some people are just naturally better at art due to inborn talent.

collapse wrote:Thanks, Jim.

When I began to draw anime-style, I decided that I would never be as good as X, Y, and Z artists. I still think I will never reach their level. However, I have never stopped trying to improve, and believe me, I have improved.

I think this is how you are, collapse. You were trying, but you realized you are at a greater disadvantage than the general group. You realize you will never be as good as some people. But you stopped a little short of me. You should keep trying, even if you'll never become a "good" artist. When you are drawing, don't compete with others; compete with yourself.

There's also something to be said about method. Practice will not make you improve. Practicing correctly will make you improve. You can't be stubborn and keep drawing and expect that you will improve. After realizing your shortcomings, you have to take drastic measures. Measure your drawings with a ruler. Simplify everything to basics. Trace pictures for a while if you have to.

A common mistake of aspiring artists is to try to accomplish everything at once. They will try to draw a cityscape over and over again, hoping to finally get it right. Instead, they should focus on only the buildings for a while. Then draw only people over and over again. Then after that draw trees. You won't improve as quickly if you try to draw everything at once.

How I started was with eyes. I drew eyes everywhere. Only eyes (kinda spooky, I know). Then I drew faces for a long time. Then I graduated to anime hair. After that, I drew complete head, neck, and shoulders. I did this for perhaps longer than I should have. When I tried to tackle the body, the results weren't good. So what did I do? I only drew the body down to the waist until I was decent at that. Then the abdomen and legs. Did I mention that I left the hands out of all my drawings? And even the feet. I practiced those separately. Then I did the entire body without faces and without hair. You'll find that now, my drawings are at an acceptable level.