Phalanx wrote:
Why does a change of name from one more confusing to one less confusing automatically constitute a cut-off?! IT's a NAME. And this community we have here is founded on more than a NAME.
Because the idea behind the name change is to get people to stop thinking there's a relationship between Space and Spot so that Spot will be able to purpetuate the myth that Space comics are inferior and Spot comics are superior.
Brand confusion my ass.
You know there are some stupid people out there that confuse Microsoft Word with Microsoft Office, but Microsoft doesn't set up a whole new publishing company to change the name to Gigahard Office. They just accept that some people are stupid.
So a few people ask the question "What's the difference between Keenspot an Keenspace" at a convention, big deal. Do you really think that's going to change if they change the name? They're just going to have people asking the question "What's the difference between Keenspot and Inferior Brand Comics?"
But currently our NAME is kind of a hindrance, due to its confusion with Keenspot. You can argue until daybreak why it shouldn't be, people are stupid,
And it is equally stupid to allow your actions to be dictated by a minority of stupid people.
Ghastly wrote:They need to stop making executive decisions based on the egos of a few bitchy Spotters for one.
It was NOT 'a few bitchy Spotters', for one.
This is far from the only decision the fab four has made based on the egos of a few bitch Spotters and believe me this whole "we have to remove Space from Keen" thing has been going on a heck of a lot longer than this message thread.
But at the present you know Keenspot is not going to give the top spacers a deal because their way they do that is by making them Keenspotters, and it'd be defeating the purpose of Keenspot if they did otherwise.
It has nothing to do with defeating the purpose of Keenspot. It has everything to do with the fact that 1) why pay for the cow when you get the milk for free, and 2) There are too many egos on Keenspot that would be upset if anything happened that would change the preceptions that Keenspace was inferior to them.
Keenspot could still exist as Keen's "President's Choice" brand even if the top talent on Space were treated fairly. Spot still has it's massive promotional engine working for it. The decision to exploit Spacers is based on the egos of a few bitchy Spotters. Why? Because as Josh put it, they're
employees and we're
just hosted here. If those Spacers who are currently producing profits for Keen were suddenly entitled to a fair share of those profits, well it would be pretty hard to maintain the myth that we're
just customers.
And don't think that Keen hasn't used the carrot of profit sharing to attract people to Space. When I signed up for Space the agreement was 50% of the profits for those with more than 50K pageviews. That agreement was in place for quite awhile until people started bitching about "what happened to the 50% of the profits thing, has anyone seen this?". Then we were told that wasn't going to happen, but was it removed from the agreement? No, it was still posted in strikeout text, still readable, as if to suggest it would be reinstituted at some future date once Keen made it through the lean years. Well then Keen made it through the lean years and people started asking about the profit sharing. Then the text was removed altogether. But it didn't stop there. Everytime the rank and file would get ruffled about this Chris Crosby would come along and say "We're seriously considering profit sharing with our top Space artists, honest!". Were they? No. Why? Because some Spotters didn't want that because then
they wouldn't feel as special anymore. Their egos won't allow them to accept that those Spacers who draw the most profits for Keen should be treated with the same fairness they receive.
Now this is definetly not something I'm arguing for for my own self interest. Out of neccessity I've already got my own ad revinue sharing deal with Keen and it has worked quite well for the both of us. I already make more money than a number of Spotters so when I argue for profit sharing don't think I'm arguing for my own self interest. I'm arguing for the interests of the other top artists on Keenspace who are producing profits for Keen and yet are still treated with a total lack of respect as artists all for the sake of making Spotters feel more important.
You can call them stupid or whatever, but it's their decision, their life.
And the lives of the artists they're exploiting. Not only that but their reputations as artists as well. Space artists are openly insulted and slighted not only by Spot artists but by the execs themselves and they feel justified in doing so because as Spacers we are inherently inferior to the Spotters. How do they know this to be true? Well certainly not by the artwork or quality of writing. No they know we are inferior because we don't get a share of the profits we earn. We don't have access to Keen merchandising. We don't have access to Keen publishing and Keen doesn't spend the time and effort to promote our comics. We must be inferior because as was said Spotters are
employees and we're
just hosted here. They're the big
professionals we're the rank
amatures.
That entire preception would have to change if the top Space artists were treated fairly and that is exactly the reason why this will never happen so long as executive decisions are based on the egos of a few bitchy Spotters.
I'm sure we haven't heard the last of the "we're looking at possibly, maybe, at some theoretical date in the uncertain future where we may perhaps give Spacers a fair share" carrot. It will no doubt come up again when enough Spacers begin to question why things are the way they are, why Spot artists are treated better, why they get more respect, why they are allowed to run down Space and the artists on it. It'll be used to sooth the ruffled feathers and people will go back to providing free content for Keen to sell adspace on and use to promote Spot artists. Some will no doubt be quieted with the thought that things will get better for them here on Space. Some will no doubt be quieted with the thought that if they work hard enough on fitting in with the Spot crowd they'll be brought on board and become one of the beautiful people and Space will just be an embarassing little chapter in their careers, a story about "paying their dues" they'll tell to those who ask about it.
Let them live it.
For the most part I do. I've known about the whole "let's boot Space out of Keen" thing for more than a year now and I've kept pretty quiet about it. I wasn't the one who brought it up now. I never am the one to bring up these threads but when they appear I'm certainly not going to hold my tongue about it. When Spot starts whipping on Space I'm certainly not going to smile and say "Thank you very much Master, may I have another". I'm not the one who brought up this thread. I'm not the one who insulted Spacers.
You probably think I'm allowing myself to be 'victimized and simply accepting it as my lot in life'. If that was the case I would have never spoken up. I would have just sat at my table and drawn comics anbd been miserable.
I'm not saying you are or not but the fact of the matter is a lot of people will resign themselves to the myth they are inferior if it is told to them enough. A lot of people will accept exploitation as the natural order of things.
There's a time to speak out, and there's a time to stop speaking out when you realise that you're speaking out to a brick wall. Because the more you speak out against the brick wall, the more it hardens, until comes the point when even you say something rational, it doesn't listen to you, because it's you who says it.
You seem to assume Keen and Spotters are the ones I'm talking to. I'm not telling them anything they don't already know. They know there are quality comics of merit on Space. They know there are comics on Space more popular than some of the comics on Spot. They know there are comics on Space that generate more revinue for Keen than some of the comics on Spot. They know there is absolutely
nothing different about them and us except that Spot gets a fair share of the profits they generate but Space does not. They know that Space is a valuable asset to Keen not just for it's ad revinue potential but also for its power to promote Keen franchises.
Believe me, the people who I am trying to get to respect Space, the people who I am trying to get to have pride in Space are not the people in Keen and the people of Spot. Even though they insult us, even though they put us down they know we are not as lowly as they would lead others to believe we are. No, the people I am trying to get to respect Space, the people who I am trying to get to take pride in Space, the choir that I am preaching to in all my evangelical wrath and glory is not on Spot, it is not the fab four. If they were who I was trying to reach I'd be taking it to the Spot forums. No, the people I am taking it to are the people who need to hear it the most. I am bringing it here, to the Spacers.
I'm telling Spacers they don't have to accept the status quo. I'm telling Spacers they don't have to accept it when Spot whips on them. I'm telling Spacers that they are not inferior artists nor are Spotters superior by virtue of the hosting. I am telling Spacers that they were not
just hosting their stuff here. I am telling Spacers that they are not merely
customers. I am telling Spacers that they don't have to quietly accept exploitation and degridation. It is my fellow Spacers who I want to feel respect for themselves as artists, as writers, as entertainers. It is my fellow Spacers who I want to to take pride in Space and all it has accomplished. Once we hold our heads up high, once we make our voices heard, once we acknowledge the strength and greatness that lives here on Space then those who would seek to make us feel small, those who would seek to make us feel weak, those who seek to make us feel unimportant, they will have no choice but to acknowledge our greatness as well. And all the negative stereotypes they use to make themselves feel our superiors and to keep us quiet, and groveling, and accepting of our lot all that will have power no more.
It is not the brick walls that I preach to, it is the people in the house.
