Comic Genesis Forums

100th reply!

Mr.Bob wrote:Okay. So we're all agreed that Tolkien invented elves and dwarves....

Actually, in a sense, he kinda did. The plural forms "elves" and "dwarves" were a Tolkein innovation. Before JRRT, the words were commonly pluralized "elfs" and "dwarfs" (the latter has resulted in a semantic split, where the word "dwarf" meaning "midget" is pluralized in the older way, while the fantasy beings are pluralized in Tolkein's way).

"g walla"? WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO GWALLA??

I dunno about that - Snow White and the Seven Dwarves came out the same year as The Hobbit. Though he can be credited with inventing the Gimli.

g walla wrote:

Mr.Bob wrote:Okay. So we're all agreed that Tolkien invented elves and dwarves....

Actually, in a sense, he kinda did. The plural forms "elves" and "dwarves" were a Tolkein innovation. Before JRRT, the words were commonly pluralized "elfs" and "dwarfs" (the latter has resulted in a semantic split, where the word "dwarf" meaning "midget" is pluralized in the older way, while the fantasy beings are pluralized in Tolkein's way).

Maybe I should keep reading all the posts instead of reading page 1 and then jumping to the last page immediately out of curiousity.

... Wow, apparently things got off topic.

Well on the on topic sense,

I do agree with using friends as a good reference. Heck, talk to them as to what they like about female characters. Well when I say friends, and those to talk too, I mean female of course.

I read up on the thing NotoriousMEQ had posted, it all made sense and it was good readin in my opinion. Got me thinking about changing one of my characters abit.

If anything don't try too hard that you'll lose interest in the character as well. A character should be somthing you enjoy in someway, if it's additude, looks, etc. I know I'm a guy though saying all this, and probly don't have any right about saying all this, but yeah... Ask female friends for help I guess, it's more realistic that way.

I guess this hits close to home for me, because the whole reason I started my strip was to impress my girlfriend (it worked too well; she married me!) I'm fortunate to have my main character based on someone that I can show it to and say, "Whaddya think?"

Case in point, I sketched several strips where she is getting dressed in a business suit (don't look for them, they're not up yet). She made a comment that she always puts her pantyhose on before she puts on her skirt. That caught me off guard, but provided yet another strip where she's so worried about her job interview that lshe ooks down and realizes she "forgot" how to dress herself.

What's the point?

If you're worried, ask a female to give you some input. (There's plenty on this forum that'll give you free advice.) More than likely it'll add to more and better strips.

That being said, I also think we draw these things for ourselves first. So if you want to tell a story that pleases you, but makes a cliche out of one of your female characters...so what? It's your strip; draw it like you want to.

I think we all worry about whether or not our stuff will be received well.

I'm reminded too of Robert Crumb who said he spent much longer drawing his female characters, concentrating on getting each line and curve perfect, while he drew the male characters without a care, just slapped them on the page. Heh, heh, I find female characters much more interesting and fun to draw than the males.

Now if I can just get better at drawing cats....

Well, I have no problem writing for female characters... Oh, you mean since I'm a girl, I should have problems with male characters? Well, I don't. This is mainly because I don't HAVE any male characters, though. I don't know why, but when I think up a character, that character is always female by default, and I don't want to create a character who is simply the token testesterone. There probably will be some males in the comic, but all of my planned main characters are girl.

Basically, I don't know if I can write for male characters, because I plain can't come up with them.

Hmm... its an interesting debate. All I can add is that when I write in a female character, in a story or a comic, I write her as female for a reason. I don't say to myself, 'well, I've got too many men' or 'maybe this character could be female to make it PC'. In my younger days, when I didn't think about it as much, perhaps, but I'd never make a main character female for the sake of being female now. If a character is female, she originates in my mind as female for a good reason, even if I don't know what it is at the time. But I feel that, at the root of it all, you just have to let characters evolve into who they are. Maybe it'll be male and maybe it'll be female, or maybe you'll end up surprising yourself...

Most of my main characters tend to be female for some reason. Strong female leads seems to be my thing but I don't think about them. Generally I just write them and they develop.

The trouble with that - I realised after reading this thread - is that usually a strong character means they don't get very emotional and are probably therefore not much of a challenge to write. I'm comforted by my last strong female lead, though. She was strong on the surface only and got quite emotional fairly frequently (even if not visibly). I didn't plan it like that mind, but it's good to know it's not a problem.

- Joel Fagin

I don't think I've ever had a character get emotional, at least not seriously emotional. But then all my characters have the emotional level of grade school boys. All my leads act male, or at least boyish, even though only one of them is technically male.

Who knows, maybe that's just teh natural way that blobbish life forms act.

*comes in late to the discussion*

Justin once brought it up that my male characters tend to come off in a much worse light than the female. The (generally) well-meaning guys are mostly weak or ineffectual, and the strongest, most active male character is, well, a psycho-rapist.

I argued that the girls are generally no batch of heroes either (Kristan's a rageaholic, Jenny's a mess, Tammi's despicable...). He pointed out that Teresa's pretty saintly, which is true.

I don't mean to be a misandrist, really!
And I don't know if it'd tip the scales at all that I have among my characters a guy with a lot of traditionally "feminine" instincts, and a girl with masculine.

Let's face it, that's just how society works of late. In order to make up for the mysogyny of yore, people just pile on the misandry and hope it balances out. it sucks, but that's how it is.

--Sij

That's true, Luprand.

Although I always believe that making bad and wead characters is better than not making them at all. I mean, than making a freakin Flash Gordon and Dale Arden.

I'll agree to that, definitely. It's kinda why I don't much like comics or stories about "This one strong person standing against the mean, cruel world and doing better than them because s/he's all cool and never loses self-confidence and knows s/he can outdo the others and just happens to be half-wizard on the mother's side and half-superhero on the dad's side and did I mention s/he's a werewolf with all kinds of amazing ..."

... you get the idea. Frankly, I prefer personality defects in my characters; I just try to spread 'em around. That's why, while my male characters tend to be oblivious and helpless to the world around them, they're balanced by female pyromaniacs, delusionals, and some women who just don't care.

--Sij

NotoriousMEQ wrote:Der Ring Des Nibelungen IS teutonic myth. Wagner sythesized a lot of it and came up with a fantastic story, despite trying to make it political and anti-semetic. Which I have the book to (well, the first book, Das Reingold/ Das Valkyrie, which has the first two parts. I can't find the second half because it's way out of print) with Authur Rackham illustrating. It's so beautiful. I can only hope to be half as good as him someday.

I looooooove Arthur Rackham! He's possibly my favorite fantasy illustrator. Luckily, I inherited a rare print of Undine from the early 1900's he illustrated.

Anyway, topic at hand: I actually did quite a lot of research to develop a male character once (I'm a woman). First, I decided a general character "type" he would be. In this case, I took the phrase, "A fine dancer with a touch of the rogue". (Wheel of Time, fyi) Then I took four men somewhat of that personality "type", two of whom were characters I knew well from other works (in this case, Han Solo and Mat Cauthon) and two of them were real men I knew well (my husband, and a longstanding friend). At first I drew from them to create his personality. Four was enough to keep me from duplicating any one man's personality, but I could learn the ropes... and ropes they were, good grief. In any situation he was in, I would ask myself, "What would these guys probably do?". I'd get a number of possibilities, then draw from that. Eventually, very eventually, it became second nature, and his personality was created. I learned a heckuva lot about men from that experience. Men just plain think DIFFERENTLY from the way women do. They just do. And the way men talk to other men and the way they talk to women is entirely different, also. I suppose the opposite is true for women, in your case (the case of the dude who started this thread, I mean). That's pretty important to remember in dialogue.

Once I did that, it became exponentially easier for me to work with male characters, so I suggest it heartily as a possible course for anyone who is trying to develop a character of the opposite sex.

kathleenJ wrote:*comes in late to the discussion*

Justin once brought it up that my male characters tend to come off in a much worse light than the female. The (generally) well-meaning guys are mostly weak or ineffectual, and the strongest, most active male character is, well, a psycho-rapist.

I argued that the girls are generally no batch of heroes either (Kristan's a rageaholic, Jenny's a mess, Tammi's despicable...). He pointed out that Teresa's pretty saintly, which is true.

I don't mean to be a misandrist, really!
And I don't know if it'd tip the scales at all that I have among my characters a guy with a lot of traditionally "feminine" instincts, and a girl with masculine.

This coming from the woman who called one of her main male characters a "white princess" and then gave me the oddest mental picture with the next line...
Misandrist? Congratultions! It's not often I learn a new word. From context, it's a gender-reversed misogynist(sp?), right?
In all honesty, Teresa's main squeeze is pretty wimpy---can't even hold a job, he gets so nervous? It might be fun to get him addicted to something dangerous, like skydiving, just to make him less so.---Al